I may have seen them open for Jellyfish in '91. I may have heard a tune or two. But, instead of rushing out to buy their catalog, I stifled a yawn. Dan Epstein helps me see (& hear) what I missed!
Just heard it! Pretty amazing....stunning guitar work throughout! The gorgeous strumming and persistent rhythm......the jangle is real! Hats off to the production, too! Thanks again, Bill!
Amazing work, guys. I loved how Brad was open enough to give them another chance with Dan’s expert guidance. I also loved how Dan chose tracks that really showcase different aspects of their musicianship throughout the years.
And that Beatles story with the Coke bottles is adorable 😊
Thanks, Andy! That was known as dedication back in the day....guzzling enough Coke to redeem the empties for a favored vinyl! I appreciated Dan's selections, too....as we've mentioned here (I think, elsewhere), we know that Dan was meticulous in making sure he sent me songs that were fairly easy jumping-on points. I would do the same if introducing someone to, say, Jellyfish.
If I were turning someone on to The Beatles, I'm sure "Revolution #9" would be nowhere near the top of my list! Or, "Piggies" for that matter!🤣Hope your special day was memorable!✨
All's well here in the Live Music Capital of the World! Thx! "Emotional memorabilia"--the special arrow in my quiver, Boobie, I wasn't really aware that I possessed! But, your special love for that gift makes me want to embrace it that much more....it helps me remember to include those tidbits as I write!💘(arrow thru heart)😎
Love this! Glad to see there is at least one power-pop leaning band in the world that Brad isn't well-versed in! I grew up in So Cal in the 80s-90s so got to see RK a couple of times back then (wish I could still remember any details).
It was fun to hear/re-hear these 5 tunes through Brad's ears and pen and the backstories via Dan. I was surprised that Brad didn't attribute Cheap Trick to "Secret Life. " Jeff's voice has a strong Robin Zander quality, more so in the chorus sections. I'm talking 80s-era CT, not '70s.
I hear the Zander in Jeff's vocals, now. I'm less familiar with '80s Zander than '70s, so, there's that! But, it's fun to get "escorted," if you will, through parts of a band's catalogue like we did here! I will say that I'm getting the feeling that RK all but lived on the road...hearing from an awful lot of people who've said what you said....they saw 'em live! That's great to hear that they were so hard-working!
It was so good to see you, yesterday, Steve! Don't be a strangler......and, while we're at it, a stranger, either!😉
So, here's my take, for what it's worth. I was not even aware that Redd Kross existed until Brad mentioned he was covering them this week. I'm 62 so I lived through their time in the 80s and 90s but they weren't hitting my airwaves in Chicago. Based on the sound of their recordings from this era I can hear why they didn't receive the airplay one might expect. They sound more 80s metal than 90s alternative. (I didn't listen to much of the former, save for some AC/DC, which is more 70s.) I do hear something more complex and interesting in a song like "Secret Life" though - it's almost Bowie-esque. I also get how they fit into the "power pop" genre. They're not MY favorite kind of pop but powerful nonetheless!
Thanks, Dan....it's cool to hear others' perspectives! I wonder if geography played a part, too, in their not becoming nationally known, to a large degree. Being Left Coast-ers, I've been picking up that, of their vast road dates, many/most seemed to be in that region. Plus, of their 11 albums, but 3 were on major labels (Atlantic, and 2 on Mercury), with 3 years between each (1990, 1993, and 1996).
With 3 years between each (and the last two were on the same label...Mercury), momentum wasn't exactly in their favor.
They never played outside of California til 1985, but they toured pretty far and wide thereafter. But yeah, they definitely lost momentum between each of those albums with lineup changes, recording troubles, etc. And Phaseshifter, which I think is a pretty perfect record, was absolutely the wrong flavor for the fall of 1993, which was dominated by In Utero and Vs...
Terrific post, Brad! (And Dan!) Happy to learn that you've been exposed to a few of the riches of Redd Kross' song catalog. A wonderful band whom I've luckily seen onstage over the years. You might also dig this psychedelicized number of theirs from their 1987 Neurotica album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7P2-4wjSk
Phil, I honestly almost started my 5 song list with this one, but thought Tommy Erdelyi's bizarre production might have been the wrong foot to start Brad off on. Neurotica was the first RK album I ever heard, and is still my sentimental favorite!
Good instincts, Dan! I liked that song, but so far, I'm (predictably) preferring RK's more pop-leaning tunes than this odd and (as Phil accurately described) psychedelic offering.
The more I'm hearing, Dan, yes, I'm appreciating RK more, but, I'm also coming to the conclusion that, for me, they're more of an interesting curiosity who can shape-shift, at will, to sound this way or that, and that's laudable, to be sure, but your description to me, earlier this week, that "RK kind of got in their own way" (to paraphrase), and that the band, themselves, perceived Jellyfish a more streamlined, professional, hit-making (my words) outfit than they.
But, regardless of how much I may or may not "like" them, now, I love having to get to know them better, and so much more appreciate who they are and what they've done with their music (and how)...that's the win, here, IMO!
And, thanks again, Dan....this was....well, I have to quote my dear friend, Andy (Andres of The Vinyl Room): "It worked a treat"!!😁👍
It was also the first Redd Kross album I ever had the pleasure of hearing, Dan. Worked my way back after getting it. And, speaking of Tommy Ramone’s bizarre production, one of my (minor) issues with its sound was the loudness of the drums which somewhat dates the album. So, yes, I agree that might’ve been the wrong song to start Brad on, LOL.
Hahaha! Yeah, Jeff and Steven told Tommy, "We want the record to have a Led Zeppelin rhythm sound with AC/DC guitars!" And Tommy was like, "Why do you want to sound like something old?" Oh, well...
I had no idea Tommy produced them. I knew he left "The Rams" to go produce, but I'm not sure I ever checked his resume to see what he ended up doing! His reticence to try for what the McDonald's wanted is both odd and to be expected:
He's a hired hand (and should attempt to follow the desires of those who gave him the job), but he was also once in a band who began with the "roto-rooter ethos" of blowing out the "old fart" sound (to paraphrase Johnny Rotten) of the classic rockers and played revved-up songs nowhere near the sound of AC/DC or Zep!
I understand why RK hired him (and would even say it was an inspired choice), but, even with what I said above, I almost wouldn't have expected Tommy to say anything else...from his POV!
Thanks, Phil! This was a fun one...yes, to work with Dan, but to cover an artist more from the "Huh?" vantage point than I'm used to!😲I've seen the error of my ways, and now, can happily find a place in my heart (hey...."ear" is smack dab in the middle of "💖") for RK! Ain't THAT a kick in the head (as Dino used to say)!
Not only was I close to a decade removed from "the biz" and fully-immersed into a far-removed-from-the-record-biz new career around 1990, having become aware of RK at about the same time as Jellyfish kinda led me to pick one over the other! Hey, human nature! And, my adoration of the 'fish was pretty overpowering! And, I was aware of RK being slotted into a similar genre lane, so "the gloves were off"!! There didn't have to be a "winner," but I chose Jellyfish!😂I'll check out that vid....thanks!
While I gotcha, Phil....I just saw your title on your new-new....I looked up Tony Rivers, and I'm like, "I don't even know me anymore!" I NEVER HEARD OF HIM! I was dense on Redd Kross, and this Rivers, on first blush, seems like somebody I should have known about, if not adored, and....nuthin'! Was I even in the biz, and thought I knew everything?!?!?🤣
Dang, dood...I'm impressed, and I haven't even read it yet! And, I can't wait...I've got over 30 sub e-mails lurking in my inbox, but, yours will be first! You're a witch!😉👍💖
When it comes to getting into Redd Kross, as they say: better late than never! There were so many excellent groups and only so much time to listen to them back in the day. One had to pick and choose some over others, with bands falling into the cracks as a result. But it's never too late to do some catching up as you've done with Redd Kross. I hope you enjoy my piece on Tony Rivers, Brad. I also had never heard of him for years until I got ahold of a couple of CDs in the early 2000s. Tons of fantastic music from the past to discover!
I hadn’t heard of Redd Kross until someone mentioned they were the opening band for a Melvins show I got a ticket for. One of my friends said she was sad the show was sold out because she wanted to go just to see Redd Kross. I have been meaning to give them a listen before the show, so this was a perfect introduction! I’m surprised I had never heard of them.
You know how I love me some musical serendipity! I'm thrilled our timing worked out in time for your show! Don't underestimate the value of a follow-up review, Kristin! I'm betting if you drop Dan's name to the folks guarding the backstage door, you might just get a chance to say "howdy" to Steven and Jeff!
As the kids might just say today, "Just sayin'!"😉Thanks, Kristin, and enjoy the show!
Yes! Perfect timing! I didn’t know where to start with them, and this gave me a point and some great background information. I had asked my Alexa to play them, but it wasn’t coming up with the right band lol.
It’s a small local venue, so I’m sure I will get a chance to talk to them before or after the show.
Kristin, if your taste runs more to 80s underground weirdness (as it might if you're a Melvins fan), I would recommend starting with 1987's Neurotica LP.
Wow...thanks so much, Matt! You're very kind! Dan was so generous and helpful with this, it's becoming one of my favorite posts on the site! For those who are here (and haven't caught it yet) your latest turn on our Tune Tag is a must!👉 https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tune-tag-109-with-matt-thompson-of
And, I'll be in the front row this Sunday to see you reveal your 3 albums on Andy's Vinyl Room "Vital Records" series that you'll be on! I can't wait for that!! Cheers, Matt!😁👍
Saw them at the Fillmore SF in the late 80's my only time ever there. They made good memories but as you point out a very layered presentation kind of gets in the way of any coherent context. On Posh Boy originally like the SoCal punks but not of that time. Respect but No hits = only fan fodder. I've toyed with that notion recently: Can any artist truly become iconic without a hit? Player is a perfect example. That tune is a forever laster.
I saw REO as a teen in NYC (wrote about it Friday in Chapter 17 of Lostinaustinbook.substack.com) and my point got finer. Who cares if any group was good or bad at a particular moment in time, what really makes memories and history are the hits. A lot can be forgiven with a hit. I also used Kiss's Strutter as an example elsewhere. Once that tune became a jukebox staple no self respecting Rock fan would ever put them in a cartoon kiddie band box again.
History has had a tough time lately. Too many artists are on their 6th or 7th album and have decent careers but no hits just a song or two from a TV show that was popular enough to get them a lot of action on Spotify.
There needs to be a reset or us geezers with track records are going to dominate discussion until someone figures out that mailing it in or coping a 'tude that gets the bills paid without stepping on too many toes will not get them even a footnote In music history.
All very well stated, Steve, especially your first paragraph! Like in any other art (or endeavor of any stripe), one can sometimes outsmart themselves. RK didn't need to TRY and concoct a hit, but, one might've come a little easier if they weren't trying to impress us so frequently with their "costume trunk," both sartorially and metaphorically re:🎵.
.....kinda like they were "accusing" (with respect, of course) J-fish of being....a little more focused on their unique pop presentation overall, and not being afraid to "write for a hit."
I appreciate you dropping your link, Steve, for your article! I've stopped subbing to 'Stacks because of an already full inbox, so I keep up with others' work thru Notes (if they post/promote them there), and folks who leave their links here (more than welcome)!
BTW, Steve.....you're due for another Tune Tag (I sound like your dentist, don't I?)! Yours was last October, so hop aboard the DMs for your first song, if you'd like. I KNEW I'd been missing you!😁🎸
Fave. Redd Kross tune (edging out Annie’s Gone)…hard to fathom it’s now 35 years old:
https://youtu.be/0xkw6zWPHvU?si=s0SoUQv9EQjZl3Ug
Oh yeah — that's a great one!
Thanks, Bill! Will check it out!--B
Just heard it! Pretty amazing....stunning guitar work throughout! The gorgeous strumming and persistent rhythm......the jangle is real! Hats off to the production, too! Thanks again, Bill!
Amazing work, guys. I loved how Brad was open enough to give them another chance with Dan’s expert guidance. I also loved how Dan chose tracks that really showcase different aspects of their musicianship throughout the years.
And that Beatles story with the Coke bottles is adorable 😊
Thanks, Andy! That was known as dedication back in the day....guzzling enough Coke to redeem the empties for a favored vinyl! I appreciated Dan's selections, too....as we've mentioned here (I think, elsewhere), we know that Dan was meticulous in making sure he sent me songs that were fairly easy jumping-on points. I would do the same if introducing someone to, say, Jellyfish.
If I were turning someone on to The Beatles, I'm sure "Revolution #9" would be nowhere near the top of my list! Or, "Piggies" for that matter!🤣Hope your special day was memorable!✨
Fantastic piece of "emotional" memorabilia for those like me who weren't around then! I love that kind of stuff.
Yes, I could tell he clearly chose the best tracks for a proper introduction to the band.
Special day was wonderful, thanks so much!! Hope you're having a nice weekend 😊
All's well here in the Live Music Capital of the World! Thx! "Emotional memorabilia"--the special arrow in my quiver, Boobie, I wasn't really aware that I possessed! But, your special love for that gift makes me want to embrace it that much more....it helps me remember to include those tidbits as I write!💘(arrow thru heart)😎
Thank you! Yes, please keep em coming!! 🤩👏🏻
Love this! Glad to see there is at least one power-pop leaning band in the world that Brad isn't well-versed in! I grew up in So Cal in the 80s-90s so got to see RK a couple of times back then (wish I could still remember any details).
It was fun to hear/re-hear these 5 tunes through Brad's ears and pen and the backstories via Dan. I was surprised that Brad didn't attribute Cheap Trick to "Secret Life. " Jeff's voice has a strong Robin Zander quality, more so in the chorus sections. I'm talking 80s-era CT, not '70s.
I hear the Zander in Jeff's vocals, now. I'm less familiar with '80s Zander than '70s, so, there's that! But, it's fun to get "escorted," if you will, through parts of a band's catalogue like we did here! I will say that I'm getting the feeling that RK all but lived on the road...hearing from an awful lot of people who've said what you said....they saw 'em live! That's great to hear that they were so hard-working!
It was so good to see you, yesterday, Steve! Don't be a strangler......and, while we're at it, a stranger, either!😉
So, here's my take, for what it's worth. I was not even aware that Redd Kross existed until Brad mentioned he was covering them this week. I'm 62 so I lived through their time in the 80s and 90s but they weren't hitting my airwaves in Chicago. Based on the sound of their recordings from this era I can hear why they didn't receive the airplay one might expect. They sound more 80s metal than 90s alternative. (I didn't listen to much of the former, save for some AC/DC, which is more 70s.) I do hear something more complex and interesting in a song like "Secret Life" though - it's almost Bowie-esque. I also get how they fit into the "power pop" genre. They're not MY favorite kind of pop but powerful nonetheless!
Thanks, Dan....it's cool to hear others' perspectives! I wonder if geography played a part, too, in their not becoming nationally known, to a large degree. Being Left Coast-ers, I've been picking up that, of their vast road dates, many/most seemed to be in that region. Plus, of their 11 albums, but 3 were on major labels (Atlantic, and 2 on Mercury), with 3 years between each (1990, 1993, and 1996).
With 3 years between each (and the last two were on the same label...Mercury), momentum wasn't exactly in their favor.
They never played outside of California til 1985, but they toured pretty far and wide thereafter. But yeah, they definitely lost momentum between each of those albums with lineup changes, recording troubles, etc. And Phaseshifter, which I think is a pretty perfect record, was absolutely the wrong flavor for the fall of 1993, which was dominated by In Utero and Vs...
Terrific post, Brad! (And Dan!) Happy to learn that you've been exposed to a few of the riches of Redd Kross' song catalog. A wonderful band whom I've luckily seen onstage over the years. You might also dig this psychedelicized number of theirs from their 1987 Neurotica album: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx7P2-4wjSk
Phil, I honestly almost started my 5 song list with this one, but thought Tommy Erdelyi's bizarre production might have been the wrong foot to start Brad off on. Neurotica was the first RK album I ever heard, and is still my sentimental favorite!
Good instincts, Dan! I liked that song, but so far, I'm (predictably) preferring RK's more pop-leaning tunes than this odd and (as Phil accurately described) psychedelic offering.
The more I'm hearing, Dan, yes, I'm appreciating RK more, but, I'm also coming to the conclusion that, for me, they're more of an interesting curiosity who can shape-shift, at will, to sound this way or that, and that's laudable, to be sure, but your description to me, earlier this week, that "RK kind of got in their own way" (to paraphrase), and that the band, themselves, perceived Jellyfish a more streamlined, professional, hit-making (my words) outfit than they.
But, regardless of how much I may or may not "like" them, now, I love having to get to know them better, and so much more appreciate who they are and what they've done with their music (and how)...that's the win, here, IMO!
And, thanks again, Dan....this was....well, I have to quote my dear friend, Andy (Andres of The Vinyl Room): "It worked a treat"!!😁👍
Right on, Brad! Thank you for inviting me over!
You're welcome anytime, Dan, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE!
It was also the first Redd Kross album I ever had the pleasure of hearing, Dan. Worked my way back after getting it. And, speaking of Tommy Ramone’s bizarre production, one of my (minor) issues with its sound was the loudness of the drums which somewhat dates the album. So, yes, I agree that might’ve been the wrong song to start Brad on, LOL.
Hahaha! Yeah, Jeff and Steven told Tommy, "We want the record to have a Led Zeppelin rhythm sound with AC/DC guitars!" And Tommy was like, "Why do you want to sound like something old?" Oh, well...
I had no idea Tommy produced them. I knew he left "The Rams" to go produce, but I'm not sure I ever checked his resume to see what he ended up doing! His reticence to try for what the McDonald's wanted is both odd and to be expected:
He's a hired hand (and should attempt to follow the desires of those who gave him the job), but he was also once in a band who began with the "roto-rooter ethos" of blowing out the "old fart" sound (to paraphrase Johnny Rotten) of the classic rockers and played revved-up songs nowhere near the sound of AC/DC or Zep!
I understand why RK hired him (and would even say it was an inspired choice), but, even with what I said above, I almost wouldn't have expected Tommy to say anything else...from his POV!
Thanks, Phil! This was a fun one...yes, to work with Dan, but to cover an artist more from the "Huh?" vantage point than I'm used to!😲I've seen the error of my ways, and now, can happily find a place in my heart (hey...."ear" is smack dab in the middle of "💖") for RK! Ain't THAT a kick in the head (as Dino used to say)!
Not only was I close to a decade removed from "the biz" and fully-immersed into a far-removed-from-the-record-biz new career around 1990, having become aware of RK at about the same time as Jellyfish kinda led me to pick one over the other! Hey, human nature! And, my adoration of the 'fish was pretty overpowering! And, I was aware of RK being slotted into a similar genre lane, so "the gloves were off"!! There didn't have to be a "winner," but I chose Jellyfish!😂I'll check out that vid....thanks!
While I gotcha, Phil....I just saw your title on your new-new....I looked up Tony Rivers, and I'm like, "I don't even know me anymore!" I NEVER HEARD OF HIM! I was dense on Redd Kross, and this Rivers, on first blush, seems like somebody I should have known about, if not adored, and....nuthin'! Was I even in the biz, and thought I knew everything?!?!?🤣
Dang, dood...I'm impressed, and I haven't even read it yet! And, I can't wait...I've got over 30 sub e-mails lurking in my inbox, but, yours will be first! You're a witch!😉👍💖
When it comes to getting into Redd Kross, as they say: better late than never! There were so many excellent groups and only so much time to listen to them back in the day. One had to pick and choose some over others, with bands falling into the cracks as a result. But it's never too late to do some catching up as you've done with Redd Kross. I hope you enjoy my piece on Tony Rivers, Brad. I also had never heard of him for years until I got ahold of a couple of CDs in the early 2000s. Tons of fantastic music from the past to discover!
I hadn’t heard of Redd Kross until someone mentioned they were the opening band for a Melvins show I got a ticket for. One of my friends said she was sad the show was sold out because she wanted to go just to see Redd Kross. I have been meaning to give them a listen before the show, so this was a perfect introduction! I’m surprised I had never heard of them.
You know how I love me some musical serendipity! I'm thrilled our timing worked out in time for your show! Don't underestimate the value of a follow-up review, Kristin! I'm betting if you drop Dan's name to the folks guarding the backstage door, you might just get a chance to say "howdy" to Steven and Jeff!
As the kids might just say today, "Just sayin'!"😉Thanks, Kristin, and enjoy the show!
Yes! Perfect timing! I didn’t know where to start with them, and this gave me a point and some great background information. I had asked my Alexa to play them, but it wasn’t coming up with the right band lol.
It’s a small local venue, so I’m sure I will get a chance to talk to them before or after the show.
Kristin, if your taste runs more to 80s underground weirdness (as it might if you're a Melvins fan), I would recommend starting with 1987's Neurotica LP.
Thanks Dan! I will do that!
Well, DO mention Dan (I'm sure he won't mind!), and I'm guessing by then, the lads, themselves, may have seen this article! Good luck!
Great post by two of my favorite music writers!
Wow...thanks so much, Matt! You're very kind! Dan was so generous and helpful with this, it's becoming one of my favorite posts on the site! For those who are here (and haven't caught it yet) your latest turn on our Tune Tag is a must!👉 https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tune-tag-109-with-matt-thompson-of
And, I'll be in the front row this Sunday to see you reveal your 3 albums on Andy's Vinyl Room "Vital Records" series that you'll be on! I can't wait for that!! Cheers, Matt!😁👍
Saw them at the Fillmore SF in the late 80's my only time ever there. They made good memories but as you point out a very layered presentation kind of gets in the way of any coherent context. On Posh Boy originally like the SoCal punks but not of that time. Respect but No hits = only fan fodder. I've toyed with that notion recently: Can any artist truly become iconic without a hit? Player is a perfect example. That tune is a forever laster.
I saw REO as a teen in NYC (wrote about it Friday in Chapter 17 of Lostinaustinbook.substack.com) and my point got finer. Who cares if any group was good or bad at a particular moment in time, what really makes memories and history are the hits. A lot can be forgiven with a hit. I also used Kiss's Strutter as an example elsewhere. Once that tune became a jukebox staple no self respecting Rock fan would ever put them in a cartoon kiddie band box again.
History has had a tough time lately. Too many artists are on their 6th or 7th album and have decent careers but no hits just a song or two from a TV show that was popular enough to get them a lot of action on Spotify.
There needs to be a reset or us geezers with track records are going to dominate discussion until someone figures out that mailing it in or coping a 'tude that gets the bills paid without stepping on too many toes will not get them even a footnote In music history.
Thoughts on a Sunday.
All very well stated, Steve, especially your first paragraph! Like in any other art (or endeavor of any stripe), one can sometimes outsmart themselves. RK didn't need to TRY and concoct a hit, but, one might've come a little easier if they weren't trying to impress us so frequently with their "costume trunk," both sartorially and metaphorically re:🎵.
.....kinda like they were "accusing" (with respect, of course) J-fish of being....a little more focused on their unique pop presentation overall, and not being afraid to "write for a hit."
I appreciate you dropping your link, Steve, for your article! I've stopped subbing to 'Stacks because of an already full inbox, so I keep up with others' work thru Notes (if they post/promote them there), and folks who leave their links here (more than welcome)!
BTW, Steve.....you're due for another Tune Tag (I sound like your dentist, don't I?)! Yours was last October, so hop aboard the DMs for your first song, if you'd like. I KNEW I'd been missing you!😁🎸