The PVC is real at the Tune Tag Battle of the 12-Inch Vinyls! It's albums vs. Disco Singles, Remixes & Extendeds! Which will win? It's Brad vs. Pe in the Attack of the Tonearms! Styli up, gents!
Hahahaha.. I'm glad I did surprise you Brad, with my revelation that, at the time of the release of Dishwalla, I was mostly tuned in to rock radio. This was really a lot of fun. Thanks for inviting me !
Our pleasure, I'm sure, Pe! Such a delight to work on this one! I think we surprised each other with our cross-pollinated genre reaches....you with your rock sense, and me with my depth of disco appreciation! Plan on a Part 2 in the near future!
This was sooo great. Can I just say, and as I commented on one of his posts recently, that Pe’s knowledge of disco is simply incredible. The passion comes through every single time.
And what never ceases to amaze me, Brad, is how comfortable you are in pretty much every single genre! To start with, the fact you let your guests break the ice and “set the tone” is not just testament to your generosity, but also, it proves that really there is no ball one could throw at you that you wouldn’t be able to catch!
I enjoyed the tracks, and loved seeing some Morales in there (I know him more than the other producers you guys mentioned, as he worked with Mariah quite a lot on her remixes).
I also love Will Downing, especially his first album. By the way, and sorry I digress, but did you guys know he (fairly) recently released an album in memory of/as a tribute to his late daughter, who tragically passed not too long ago? The album is great, a lot less gloomy than one would expect, but still very heartfelt.
Loved seeing that Brenda + MC clip (from MC’s 1998 Around the World home video). They’re still in touch, I believe, although they grew distant at some point for some misunderstanding involving some bags of popcorn (which Mariah sent to Brenda, and Brenda got offended… I dunno… stuff that happens, I guess!).
Anyway, I’m digressing a lot. Excellent work, guys. I learned a lot and, importantly, you got me rocking some moves! When are we going raving, the three of us? 🕺🕺
You know our comment section, Boobie......no such thing as digressing, especially from you! It all becomes part of the finished product! More than happy to have your additions, here, as they're spot-on and important!
Thanks for your second paragraph compliment! As for genres and my comfort level, you know my upbringing...Daddy just didn't bring home Sabbath, Tull and Alice albums....I got Joni, Neil Young, Bonnie, and so much across FM-friendly and AM pop! I found faves in the "Urban Cowboy" trend (Ronnie Milsap, Eddie Rabbitt, et al), punk, of course, and, even disco! I loved Gaynor, Carol Douglas, all the TSOP output, Spinners, and so many!
It's great to lead off with the guest, 'cause I encourage them to expound on how and why they love that track and artist! That's a cool kick-off!
Madden and Downing were brand new to me, and along with Roberts and Owens, so it was great getting to know their work!
I've been trying to psychoanalyze that Mariah/Brenda rift! Never knew that. Brenda might've felt some jealousy/envy for having MC zoom past her, even though she realized early on (from our included clip) that Mariah should be a star. So, with all that, maybe Brenda thought (or hoped), that if a gift was to be sent, maybe more than popcorn? Just a guess. Thanks again, Andy!
Thank you, Brad! Your upbringing was so foundational, and also, it’s amazing how much you expanded it!
You make every guest feel welcome. It’s so nerve-racking to play this game with you, because (and I’m sure I’m not the only one), we all feel this “I don’t want to mess it up” kinda thing! 😄 But once one gets over that nervousness, it’s a proper ride, every single time!
Yes, I have a feeling there was some of what you describe (from Brenda to MC). But I read recently they were in good terms again, which made me happy. She also praised Brenda in her memoir, which I think might have acted as some sort of olive branch 😊
That's good to hear about Mariah and Brenda. It's fun to get to know our TT guests each week, and some of them express an initial trepidation, but they quickly warm up and do a great job!
Thanks, Ryan! I started to cringe when the word count just crept over 3K. But, if TT can't have an extended remix with PeDupre at the helm, fuh cryin' out loud, when WILL it?!?! As I mentioned to Pe, I think we each surprised the other....me, with his knowledge and rock hipness, and he, likely stunned by my disco disc awareness!
What was SO huge here, though, is what Pe brought from the international market! Easily, my black hole of vinyl knowledge, understandably, as a Statesider! So, here again, #MusicStack having every crook and nanny (OK, fine....nook and cranny) covered, with Pe's wonderful 'Stack enveloping the 12" disco scene (both dance and rock remixes) as well as the little-known international releases from the day!
Hey there! Just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed reading your latest Tune Tag! The way you brought the history of dance music alive, especially through the stories behind tracks like “Jibaro” and the connection to Latin music’s influence on disco, was so interesting. I also loved your insights into the 12-inch vinyl era and the creative process of remixing. Great job!
Thanks so much, Jon! This one was so about Pe, and what he brought to the proceedings, this week! I had a gas, and learned a bunch about artists (and international markets) I didn't know before! And, as you mentioned, the little-known (in the States, anyway) Latin market....a HUGE market for labels back in the '70s and '80s!
Glad to hear it, Chase.......thanks! You're up next! I look forward to digging into it! As you know, we actually played it, like, a month ago, so I can't recall a lot of what we did (beyond a plethora of They Might Be Relatively Outsized Humans, But We May Not Know Til They Get A Little Closer songs)! Cheers, and thanks again, Chase!
As an avid student of music, I always learn so much over here at Tune Tag U!!
Learning about some of the early roots of disco was fascinating and “Jibaro” was fantastic!
I’d only ever heard Dishwalla’s 1995 album “Pet Your Friends” which included the breakout hit “Counting Blue Cars”. Not sure I even knew they were still around a decade later!
And I certainly never heard the 12” remix of “Dancing In The Dark”. That was an excellent remix, not what I would’ve expected from a 12”!!
Before listening to the Brenda K. Starr track I had it in my mind that she sang “Piano In The Dark, but that was another Brenda (Russell). The connection of her being the daughter of the Spiral Staircase organist was next level Brad! I’d always loved that track but never knew the artist, so thanks for that!
Thanks, Mark! We always appreciate the faculty here at TTU! We certainly have the most fun in the teacher's lounge! Pe certainly brought da goods here...as I've said elsewhere, yes, the world of the 12" "disco" single (who knew, Bruce?!), but so much of the so under-heard international market in all its iterations!
I only wish I could say that the last link went like this: "Oh, goody, a Brenda K. Starr mention....now, I get to pull out that rare Harvey Kaye link I've been saving for decades!" NO! As I say, I know I had an audible "WHAT?1?" in my crowded Panera when I first discovered that last week! Especially, 'cause I've always loved that Starecase song, and their singer, Pat Upton!
Speaking of the incomparable Brenda Russell, may I introduce you to one of hers you may not have heard? It wasn't a hit (certainly not like "Piano"), I don't think, but, it was such a song that, back when it was out (1979, and I had the album, her debut), it wormed its way into my heart! "Piano in the Dark" is from '88, and her 4th album, "Get Here." Here's a live of "In the Thick of It" (she wrote it, and on her album, she not only arranged the vocals, but, co-arranged the rhythm arrangements): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRNekT9SC0E Enjoy!
There's a short thread between Brenda (who released her debut in '79), and Anita Baker, who began her career the same year, dropping her debut in '83! So smooth, velvety, and jazz-based. Long live the inspiration of Ella!
Love the Springsteen discussion. I remember being blown away the first time I heard the remix. I didn’t know that Bruce approved and was in the sound room! Must be why it plays so often on E Street Radio. I guess he liked it!!
Thanks, Colin! I've been talking all day about just that, not only to folks online, but in real life! I think several things are at play with Bruce and the "disco remix": Bruce, while hanging on with a death grip to his "rock cred," was also savvy enough to see the winds blowing in this direction (like the still-new "I've gotta look pretty for these MTV video things, and come up with some sort of premise for each!").
CBS pressed him for these discs, and he realized they knew the biz, and he wouldn't be alone in this whole 12"-remix thing...even in the rock lane! Heck, even The Stones were doing it!
When looking back over HIS career, he had to weather the twists and turns of punk (did CBS wink in his direction to do some faster, 3-chord punky stuff?), the Urban Cowboy trend ("Hey, Bruce, got any country in ya?") and disco ("Oh, c'mon, Bruce, would a duet with Donna Summer killya?").
I have no idea if any of these contrived convos ever happened, but a giant corporation does what it does to spur sales. By the same token, Bruce had earned some leverage by this point, and could've said no, and the label would've backed off. His career, for so many reasons (popularity, sales, prolific catalog, publishing income for the company, the rare artist who's earned the right to push back on label demands, etc) is a fascinating one to dissect!
Well the Donna Summer part happened actually 😃. Bruce wrote a song for Donna's 1983 album on Geffen. The one produced by Quincy Jones. Apparently he wrote "Cover Me" for her but Jon Landau wanted Bruce to keep it for his own album so he wrote another one : "Protection". The self titled Donna Summer album is the best of her career (in my humble opinion) and it still surprises me that Geffen did not release "Protection" as third single worldwide. It was only released as a single in Japan and in my homecountry of Belgium. Bruce was in the studio when Donna recorded the song, played on it and sung some backings and there is, apparently, also a duet version, that might appear on a re-release of that album in the future.
WHAT! When I said that, it never occurred to me to look it up!! That's beyond stunning! "Disco Boss"....although, I think Diana has dibs on that! Well, I think we can more fully paint Bruce into the compliant, go-with-the-flow kinda cat I didn't realize he'd be!
Not to assign him any greediness, but, again, there's the publishing angle (and CBS with their April-Blackwood publishing arm, and laser focus on that lucrative part of the biz) that, while Bruce might not have actively courted, he was smart enough to avoid being "precious" with his gift to the point of refusing such avenues others might pounce on him for being a sell-out! Which, I'm sure some did (especially in the press....just guessing).
Well, I know there's that Pointer Sisters song (a cover, I believe), and the Patti Smith collab....I still don't think there's any other song he co-wrote with anyone on! And, I think the "Fire" song wasnt' written so much FOR The Pointers, as it was, simply, a cover. Just going by memory. I'll have to check out that "Protection" song, though!
BTW, that '83-'86 corridor was my pop culture "black hole," as I call it. I returned to college at 28 to make a drastic turn in careers! Hence, my general density for all that happened, TV/movies/music during that time!
Fun to delve back into those disco beats again! It's been a while for me. I remembered Brenda's song but not the others. Some surprising facts there about Brenda and her dad and daughter.
I've only heard three of the songs overall, so it was great to be introduced to the others. A few artists I will explore further.
Thanks, Ellen! Mad props to Pe, for bringing da funk, no doubt! Most of his were new to me, too.....when I first heard the name, Brenda K. Starr, here, I'm thinking......."the stripper"? But, you're right about Brenda, and the family tree branches! My jaw fell when I saw that Starecase connection.
I've always loved that song, and Pat Upton has always been in my Top 10 of undersung singers (along with John Waite, Rob Grill, Danny Wilde, Tony Burrows, and a couple others). Thanks again for your loyalty, comments, and diligence in pursuing more info about these artists!
I KNEW that name was rattling around in my brain.....I didn't even check by researching! Well, that might solve the reason for the singer's "K"! That, and the fact I had Brenda's (no K) occupation wrong! And, I remember that Blondie song, but had no idea she mentioned Brenda (you know me and lyrics)!
What's funny is that Mom (born in '27) turned out to be a writer (working for Reader's Digest right outta college), and likely read, and was influenced by, Brenda (no K!). I must've gotten the love of writing from her, and my love of words and word play from Dad!
I didn't notice that either of you mentioned it, but in the original music video of "Dancing in the Dark," Springsteen ends up dancing on stage with a teenage Courtney Cox.
Well, from my POV, that's fairly well known by now (and FR&B likes to pull the cover off the little-known to flat-out unknown...you know how we roll)! I've always wondered, though, how all that happened...just how organic was it? Was the "concert" a staged shoot, and Ms. Cox auditioned to be "girl whom Bruce picks from the audience"?
Or, was it as most people seem to "buy," that the concert was filmed, and Bruce just picked out a pretty girl from the crowd, and her name just happened to be one we all came to know? Yo soy curioso!
Hahahaha.. I'm glad I did surprise you Brad, with my revelation that, at the time of the release of Dishwalla, I was mostly tuned in to rock radio. This was really a lot of fun. Thanks for inviting me !
Our pleasure, I'm sure, Pe! Such a delight to work on this one! I think we surprised each other with our cross-pollinated genre reaches....you with your rock sense, and me with my depth of disco appreciation! Plan on a Part 2 in the near future!
Looking forward !
This was sooo great. Can I just say, and as I commented on one of his posts recently, that Pe’s knowledge of disco is simply incredible. The passion comes through every single time.
And what never ceases to amaze me, Brad, is how comfortable you are in pretty much every single genre! To start with, the fact you let your guests break the ice and “set the tone” is not just testament to your generosity, but also, it proves that really there is no ball one could throw at you that you wouldn’t be able to catch!
I enjoyed the tracks, and loved seeing some Morales in there (I know him more than the other producers you guys mentioned, as he worked with Mariah quite a lot on her remixes).
I also love Will Downing, especially his first album. By the way, and sorry I digress, but did you guys know he (fairly) recently released an album in memory of/as a tribute to his late daughter, who tragically passed not too long ago? The album is great, a lot less gloomy than one would expect, but still very heartfelt.
Loved seeing that Brenda + MC clip (from MC’s 1998 Around the World home video). They’re still in touch, I believe, although they grew distant at some point for some misunderstanding involving some bags of popcorn (which Mariah sent to Brenda, and Brenda got offended… I dunno… stuff that happens, I guess!).
Anyway, I’m digressing a lot. Excellent work, guys. I learned a lot and, importantly, you got me rocking some moves! When are we going raving, the three of us? 🕺🕺
Great idea Andy ! 😀👍
You know our comment section, Boobie......no such thing as digressing, especially from you! It all becomes part of the finished product! More than happy to have your additions, here, as they're spot-on and important!
Thanks for your second paragraph compliment! As for genres and my comfort level, you know my upbringing...Daddy just didn't bring home Sabbath, Tull and Alice albums....I got Joni, Neil Young, Bonnie, and so much across FM-friendly and AM pop! I found faves in the "Urban Cowboy" trend (Ronnie Milsap, Eddie Rabbitt, et al), punk, of course, and, even disco! I loved Gaynor, Carol Douglas, all the TSOP output, Spinners, and so many!
It's great to lead off with the guest, 'cause I encourage them to expound on how and why they love that track and artist! That's a cool kick-off!
Madden and Downing were brand new to me, and along with Roberts and Owens, so it was great getting to know their work!
I've been trying to psychoanalyze that Mariah/Brenda rift! Never knew that. Brenda might've felt some jealousy/envy for having MC zoom past her, even though she realized early on (from our included clip) that Mariah should be a star. So, with all that, maybe Brenda thought (or hoped), that if a gift was to be sent, maybe more than popcorn? Just a guess. Thanks again, Andy!
Thank you, Brad! Your upbringing was so foundational, and also, it’s amazing how much you expanded it!
You make every guest feel welcome. It’s so nerve-racking to play this game with you, because (and I’m sure I’m not the only one), we all feel this “I don’t want to mess it up” kinda thing! 😄 But once one gets over that nervousness, it’s a proper ride, every single time!
Yes, I have a feeling there was some of what you describe (from Brenda to MC). But I read recently they were in good terms again, which made me happy. She also praised Brenda in her memoir, which I think might have acted as some sort of olive branch 😊
That's good to hear about Mariah and Brenda. It's fun to get to know our TT guests each week, and some of them express an initial trepidation, but they quickly warm up and do a great job!
That trepidation might have a little bit to do with the greatness of the host, I reckon 😉
Top notch Tune Tag!
Thanks, Ryan! I started to cringe when the word count just crept over 3K. But, if TT can't have an extended remix with PeDupre at the helm, fuh cryin' out loud, when WILL it?!?! As I mentioned to Pe, I think we each surprised the other....me, with his knowledge and rock hipness, and he, likely stunned by my disco disc awareness!
What was SO huge here, though, is what Pe brought from the international market! Easily, my black hole of vinyl knowledge, understandably, as a Statesider! So, here again, #MusicStack having every crook and nanny (OK, fine....nook and cranny) covered, with Pe's wonderful 'Stack enveloping the 12" disco scene (both dance and rock remixes) as well as the little-known international releases from the day!
Hey there! Just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed reading your latest Tune Tag! The way you brought the history of dance music alive, especially through the stories behind tracks like “Jibaro” and the connection to Latin music’s influence on disco, was so interesting. I also loved your insights into the 12-inch vinyl era and the creative process of remixing. Great job!
Thanks so much, Jon! This one was so about Pe, and what he brought to the proceedings, this week! I had a gas, and learned a bunch about artists (and international markets) I didn't know before! And, as you mentioned, the little-known (in the States, anyway) Latin market....a HUGE market for labels back in the '70s and '80s!
Sooo many great tunes to start my work day here!
Glad to hear it, Chase.......thanks! You're up next! I look forward to digging into it! As you know, we actually played it, like, a month ago, so I can't recall a lot of what we did (beyond a plethora of They Might Be Relatively Outsized Humans, But We May Not Know Til They Get A Little Closer songs)! Cheers, and thanks again, Chase!
As an avid student of music, I always learn so much over here at Tune Tag U!!
Learning about some of the early roots of disco was fascinating and “Jibaro” was fantastic!
I’d only ever heard Dishwalla’s 1995 album “Pet Your Friends” which included the breakout hit “Counting Blue Cars”. Not sure I even knew they were still around a decade later!
And I certainly never heard the 12” remix of “Dancing In The Dark”. That was an excellent remix, not what I would’ve expected from a 12”!!
Before listening to the Brenda K. Starr track I had it in my mind that she sang “Piano In The Dark, but that was another Brenda (Russell). The connection of her being the daughter of the Spiral Staircase organist was next level Brad! I’d always loved that track but never knew the artist, so thanks for that!
Thanks, Mark! We always appreciate the faculty here at TTU! We certainly have the most fun in the teacher's lounge! Pe certainly brought da goods here...as I've said elsewhere, yes, the world of the 12" "disco" single (who knew, Bruce?!), but so much of the so under-heard international market in all its iterations!
I only wish I could say that the last link went like this: "Oh, goody, a Brenda K. Starr mention....now, I get to pull out that rare Harvey Kaye link I've been saving for decades!" NO! As I say, I know I had an audible "WHAT?1?" in my crowded Panera when I first discovered that last week! Especially, 'cause I've always loved that Starecase song, and their singer, Pat Upton!
Speaking of the incomparable Brenda Russell, may I introduce you to one of hers you may not have heard? It wasn't a hit (certainly not like "Piano"), I don't think, but, it was such a song that, back when it was out (1979, and I had the album, her debut), it wormed its way into my heart! "Piano in the Dark" is from '88, and her 4th album, "Get Here." Here's a live of "In the Thick of It" (she wrote it, and on her album, she not only arranged the vocals, but, co-arranged the rhythm arrangements): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRNekT9SC0E Enjoy!
That was a lovely song, thanks for sharing! I like how she drops into scatting from time to time. And the guitar solo, beautiful!
There's a short thread between Brenda (who released her debut in '79), and Anita Baker, who began her career the same year, dropping her debut in '83! So smooth, velvety, and jazz-based. Long live the inspiration of Ella!
Love the Springsteen discussion. I remember being blown away the first time I heard the remix. I didn’t know that Bruce approved and was in the sound room! Must be why it plays so often on E Street Radio. I guess he liked it!!
Thanks, Colin! I've been talking all day about just that, not only to folks online, but in real life! I think several things are at play with Bruce and the "disco remix": Bruce, while hanging on with a death grip to his "rock cred," was also savvy enough to see the winds blowing in this direction (like the still-new "I've gotta look pretty for these MTV video things, and come up with some sort of premise for each!").
CBS pressed him for these discs, and he realized they knew the biz, and he wouldn't be alone in this whole 12"-remix thing...even in the rock lane! Heck, even The Stones were doing it!
When looking back over HIS career, he had to weather the twists and turns of punk (did CBS wink in his direction to do some faster, 3-chord punky stuff?), the Urban Cowboy trend ("Hey, Bruce, got any country in ya?") and disco ("Oh, c'mon, Bruce, would a duet with Donna Summer killya?").
I have no idea if any of these contrived convos ever happened, but a giant corporation does what it does to spur sales. By the same token, Bruce had earned some leverage by this point, and could've said no, and the label would've backed off. His career, for so many reasons (popularity, sales, prolific catalog, publishing income for the company, the rare artist who's earned the right to push back on label demands, etc) is a fascinating one to dissect!
Well the Donna Summer part happened actually 😃. Bruce wrote a song for Donna's 1983 album on Geffen. The one produced by Quincy Jones. Apparently he wrote "Cover Me" for her but Jon Landau wanted Bruce to keep it for his own album so he wrote another one : "Protection". The self titled Donna Summer album is the best of her career (in my humble opinion) and it still surprises me that Geffen did not release "Protection" as third single worldwide. It was only released as a single in Japan and in my homecountry of Belgium. Bruce was in the studio when Donna recorded the song, played on it and sung some backings and there is, apparently, also a duet version, that might appear on a re-release of that album in the future.
WHAT! When I said that, it never occurred to me to look it up!! That's beyond stunning! "Disco Boss"....although, I think Diana has dibs on that! Well, I think we can more fully paint Bruce into the compliant, go-with-the-flow kinda cat I didn't realize he'd be!
Not to assign him any greediness, but, again, there's the publishing angle (and CBS with their April-Blackwood publishing arm, and laser focus on that lucrative part of the biz) that, while Bruce might not have actively courted, he was smart enough to avoid being "precious" with his gift to the point of refusing such avenues others might pounce on him for being a sell-out! Which, I'm sure some did (especially in the press....just guessing).
Well, I know there's that Pointer Sisters song (a cover, I believe), and the Patti Smith collab....I still don't think there's any other song he co-wrote with anyone on! And, I think the "Fire" song wasnt' written so much FOR The Pointers, as it was, simply, a cover. Just going by memory. I'll have to check out that "Protection" song, though!
BTW, that '83-'86 corridor was my pop culture "black hole," as I call it. I returned to college at 28 to make a drastic turn in careers! Hence, my general density for all that happened, TV/movies/music during that time!
Fun to delve back into those disco beats again! It's been a while for me. I remembered Brenda's song but not the others. Some surprising facts there about Brenda and her dad and daughter.
I've only heard three of the songs overall, so it was great to be introduced to the others. A few artists I will explore further.
Thanks, Ellen! Mad props to Pe, for bringing da funk, no doubt! Most of his were new to me, too.....when I first heard the name, Brenda K. Starr, here, I'm thinking......."the stripper"? But, you're right about Brenda, and the family tree branches! My jaw fell when I saw that Starecase connection.
I've always loved that song, and Pat Upton has always been in my Top 10 of undersung singers (along with John Waite, Rob Grill, Danny Wilde, Tony Burrows, and a couple others). Thanks again for your loyalty, comments, and diligence in pursuing more info about these artists!
Comic strip(er)? https://chicagoliteraryhof.org/comics/entry/brenda-starr-a-female-role-model
Also referenced by Blondie: https://genius.com/Blondie-rip-her-to-shreds-lyrics
"She looks like the Sunday comics
She thinks she's Brenda Starr"
I KNEW that name was rattling around in my brain.....I didn't even check by researching! Well, that might solve the reason for the singer's "K"! That, and the fact I had Brenda's (no K) occupation wrong! And, I remember that Blondie song, but had no idea she mentioned Brenda (you know me and lyrics)!
What's funny is that Mom (born in '27) turned out to be a writer (working for Reader's Digest right outta college), and likely read, and was influenced by, Brenda (no K!). I must've gotten the love of writing from her, and my love of words and word play from Dad!
Yes, comic strip(er)..........nice.
I didn't notice that either of you mentioned it, but in the original music video of "Dancing in the Dark," Springsteen ends up dancing on stage with a teenage Courtney Cox.
Well, from my POV, that's fairly well known by now (and FR&B likes to pull the cover off the little-known to flat-out unknown...you know how we roll)! I've always wondered, though, how all that happened...just how organic was it? Was the "concert" a staged shoot, and Ms. Cox auditioned to be "girl whom Bruce picks from the audience"?
Or, was it as most people seem to "buy," that the concert was filmed, and Bruce just picked out a pretty girl from the crowd, and her name just happened to be one we all came to know? Yo soy curioso!