🤷♀️I'm not finding any studio players listed anywhere. I've scoured all Discog pages for the "You Broke My Heart" album and the "They Don't Know" single, and all they're revealing is producers, engineers, and scores of background singers!
Even their photo of the album cover and its credits show the same! I haven't had ownership of my collection (with that album) in over two decades, or I'd be happy to scour my copy.....I'm guessing Discogs' info is provided by those who own/have owned the album, and it appears that those credits weren't even listed on the album credits!
I had thought it might be Pino Palladino (same guy who did the amazing fretless bass work on Paul Young's hits in that 1983ish era) - but I scoured his credit list and no mention of this record. Still a beauty of a bassline though. Great site. Thanks for looking into it for me.
I thought Bonnie Raitt's Freebo was the only fretless bassist extant! I figured there were more, but never knew! That may, however, be a way to hunt down who played on Tracey's album....search various players who might have been in the area just before time of release! Wonder why that info is deemed so secret by all involved.
Glad you're here, Ken, and methinks you might enjoy the 20 articles contributed by Stephen Michael Schwartz, who was 20 in 1974 when he recorded an album for RCA. He spent a couple decades in the children's music lane after forming a trio, The Parachute Express (YT vids abound), but his '70s-era behind-the-scenes Hollywood record biz stories are revealing and endlessly fascinating!
"They add up to an aural pastiche that, while a dangerous inch away from “cluttered,” give a fitting yet subtle nod to a Phil Spector side (or, at the very least, a Tokens-produced Laurie Records/Chiffons track)."
Thank you for putting "cluttered" and Phil Spector in the same sentence, even though I think you separated them by a "dangerous inch." I was just taking last night with a colleague about structural space in Beatles songs as one of their features, and compared Spector's Wall of Sound to a hoarder house in which there's not room for the listener to "walk around." Which brought the conversation inevitably to Let It Be -- it's hard to think of a more mismatched pairing than Spector and (esp) the '69 Fabs. No wonder Paul was pissed off.
Anyway, that's a digression into my land, but I just thought it was synchronistic that clutter and Spector popped up here as well.
And thanks for a fun article. I'd forgotten about that song entirely (and every time I read the title, I kept adding "it's Christmas" to it in my head until I got that sorted...)
Spector's approach has always been polarizing, that's for sure! Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's hopefully something you can appreciate at least from a distance! Like a specific cologne, he was for some artists, and clearly, not for others! It depended on your "skin chemistry"!
I didn't see, frankly, a whole lot of debilitating "Spectorization" on "Let it Be" (the stereotypical "kitchen sink" instrumentation, swirling strings and blaring horns)....I heard even more on George's "What is Life," which I loved, and I wrote about, at length, here: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/beatle-royale-dont-bother-me-and
I didn't see that much, either, tbf. For sure he ruined Long and Winding Road and for sure, at least IMO, enough so that the Naked version is better. (Oh, if they'd only re-release the vinyl so I wouldn't have to mortgage my house for it on discogs...).
What he did to Lennon's Rock and Roll Music album, which should have been as transcendent as Paul's two classic rock albums, is the greater sin.
And yes, the Wall of Sound has its place. I prefer some walkin'' around room in my music, but if all music sounded the same, there'd be no need at all for cardboard dividers at record stores. Wait... hmmmm.....
PS. I truly don't get Spector's vaunted place in history from a production standpoint. The way he layers sound gives no separation and creates what to me feels like a muddy mess and sloppy lazy production, like an artist who uses all the colors in the box because they're there That his artists succeeded and left an indelible imprint on music history is undeniable, but I can't help but think it was an in spite of not because of situation.
I actually don't disagree. For years I had wished there was a way his thunderous approach could be rendered with far more treble...or, at least, clearer. Invariably, though, his records came out sounding muddy, just as you said.
His "vaunted place in history" has to do, mostly, with the fact he was doing what no one else was doing (the cynic would say, "Sure, no one wanted their records to sound like that!"); plus, he was a master showman, an arrogant carnival barker, and the first producer to get his name printed on a single's label....he saw to it.
Now, once I read so much about how he achieved that, I was amazed, and "got over" my initial dislike for the sound, and then what happened completely shifted...sure, I still followed his career....ooh, you need to read this....one of my handful of really proud moments, here...from May, and following Tina's passing: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tina-turner-1966-phil-spectors-river
A favorite niche collecting-focus for me in the '70s (and there were a lot!) became artists who set out to SOUND LIKE Spector (or approximate his results, if only on this song or that, rather than build their total sound like that)....Artists like Roy Wood, his ELO bud, Jeff Lynne, the Raspberries, Beach Boys even Springsteen.....I had and "couldn't get" his 1st 2 albums. He comes with the proudly-admitted Spector-cop of "Born to Run," and I was SO, then, into him (as so many others became)!
I could stand to do an article collecting just those artists....who set out to sound like a Spector production! I just did that, 3 weeks ago, to the Beach Boys...artists who intentionally recorded an original song performed and recorded as if by the BBs: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/grow-bigger-ears-19-beach-boys-sound
I'll read before I comment more substantively, but just dropping in to say that yes re; Bruce. His original live piano-only version of Thunder Road is transcendent compared to the one that made the cut. I'll never get why he didn't leave it that way and spectorized it instead, other than I suppose a youthful desire to rock the arena. I don't know if there's an equivalent of Born to Run, but if there is, I bet it's a similar situation.
I know you've head this, everyone has, but in case there's someone reading who isn't everyone yet...
Also I suspect Lennon's love affair with Spector was half to do with his passion for Motown girl groups, and partly to do with wanting, during that period, to piss people off and be around other people who pissed people off. (Harry Nillson being another example, and I can never spell that right and am too lazy to look it up.)
That acoustic Thunder Road was quite impressive. Not sure I'd heard it before. I imagine Appel, Landau and Bruce had a vision for what they wanted the album to sound like....with Bruce's key input, of course. As for Lennon, that sounds like him...but, yes, John's love of '50s rock'n'roll + girl groups (Motown and Spector's) probably fueled his desire to record with Spector.
This was a great song back in the day. The Tracey Ullman Show was also criminally underrated. it's also one of the few places viewers can see Simpson's voice actors Dan Castellaneta and Julie Kavner acting in front of the camera.
Thanks, Matt! It's been fun doing the deep dive (dives I know you're familiar with doing your engaging Elvis Costello pieces, which I heartily recommend to all)!
It's also been enlightening to field the Kirsty/Tracey comparisons (on FB, in particular) and hear each "camp" rightfully voice their preferences! Plus, I've been sent quite a few "TDK" covers I wasn't aware of!
Thanks, Glenn! Certainly a fun dive, and it's amazing how many covers of Kirsty's song there are! I've also found a new appreciation of Kirsty's songwriting talents overall, and have a new song fave....her "Terry" (which Tracey covered)!
Does anyone know who played the bass line on the 1983 release of "They don't know". I've been trying to find out.
🤷♀️I'm not finding any studio players listed anywhere. I've scoured all Discog pages for the "You Broke My Heart" album and the "They Don't Know" single, and all they're revealing is producers, engineers, and scores of background singers!
Even their photo of the album cover and its credits show the same! I haven't had ownership of my collection (with that album) in over two decades, or I'd be happy to scour my copy.....I'm guessing Discogs' info is provided by those who own/have owned the album, and it appears that those credits weren't even listed on the album credits!
Thanks for visiting, Ken, and reading!
I had thought it might be Pino Palladino (same guy who did the amazing fretless bass work on Paul Young's hits in that 1983ish era) - but I scoured his credit list and no mention of this record. Still a beauty of a bassline though. Great site. Thanks for looking into it for me.
I thought Bonnie Raitt's Freebo was the only fretless bassist extant! I figured there were more, but never knew! That may, however, be a way to hunt down who played on Tracey's album....search various players who might have been in the area just before time of release! Wonder why that info is deemed so secret by all involved.
Glad you're here, Ken, and methinks you might enjoy the 20 articles contributed by Stephen Michael Schwartz, who was 20 in 1974 when he recorded an album for RCA. He spent a couple decades in the children's music lane after forming a trio, The Parachute Express (YT vids abound), but his '70s-era behind-the-scenes Hollywood record biz stories are revealing and endlessly fascinating!
His story starts here: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/career-chord-change-stephen-michael
and, his complete FR&B canon has been assembled on Flipboard, which you can get to here:
https://flipboard.com/@schwartzstories/front-row-backstage-with-stephen-michael-schwartz-fcjpqreoy. Anything clicked on there will simply send you back to my Substack. I just wanted to collect them all in one place for Stephen, his friends, family, and colleagues!
Enjoy!
"They add up to an aural pastiche that, while a dangerous inch away from “cluttered,” give a fitting yet subtle nod to a Phil Spector side (or, at the very least, a Tokens-produced Laurie Records/Chiffons track)."
Thank you for putting "cluttered" and Phil Spector in the same sentence, even though I think you separated them by a "dangerous inch." I was just taking last night with a colleague about structural space in Beatles songs as one of their features, and compared Spector's Wall of Sound to a hoarder house in which there's not room for the listener to "walk around." Which brought the conversation inevitably to Let It Be -- it's hard to think of a more mismatched pairing than Spector and (esp) the '69 Fabs. No wonder Paul was pissed off.
Anyway, that's a digression into my land, but I just thought it was synchronistic that clutter and Spector popped up here as well.
And thanks for a fun article. I'd forgotten about that song entirely (and every time I read the title, I kept adding "it's Christmas" to it in my head until I got that sorted...)
Spector's approach has always been polarizing, that's for sure! Even if it's not your cup of tea, it's hopefully something you can appreciate at least from a distance! Like a specific cologne, he was for some artists, and clearly, not for others! It depended on your "skin chemistry"!
I didn't see, frankly, a whole lot of debilitating "Spectorization" on "Let it Be" (the stereotypical "kitchen sink" instrumentation, swirling strings and blaring horns)....I heard even more on George's "What is Life," which I loved, and I wrote about, at length, here: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/beatle-royale-dont-bother-me-and
I didn't see that much, either, tbf. For sure he ruined Long and Winding Road and for sure, at least IMO, enough so that the Naked version is better. (Oh, if they'd only re-release the vinyl so I wouldn't have to mortgage my house for it on discogs...).
What he did to Lennon's Rock and Roll Music album, which should have been as transcendent as Paul's two classic rock albums, is the greater sin.
And yes, the Wall of Sound has its place. I prefer some walkin'' around room in my music, but if all music sounded the same, there'd be no need at all for cardboard dividers at record stores. Wait... hmmmm.....
PS. I truly don't get Spector's vaunted place in history from a production standpoint. The way he layers sound gives no separation and creates what to me feels like a muddy mess and sloppy lazy production, like an artist who uses all the colors in the box because they're there That his artists succeeded and left an indelible imprint on music history is undeniable, but I can't help but think it was an in spite of not because of situation.
I actually don't disagree. For years I had wished there was a way his thunderous approach could be rendered with far more treble...or, at least, clearer. Invariably, though, his records came out sounding muddy, just as you said.
His "vaunted place in history" has to do, mostly, with the fact he was doing what no one else was doing (the cynic would say, "Sure, no one wanted their records to sound like that!"); plus, he was a master showman, an arrogant carnival barker, and the first producer to get his name printed on a single's label....he saw to it.
Now, once I read so much about how he achieved that, I was amazed, and "got over" my initial dislike for the sound, and then what happened completely shifted...sure, I still followed his career....ooh, you need to read this....one of my handful of really proud moments, here...from May, and following Tina's passing: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/tina-turner-1966-phil-spectors-river
A favorite niche collecting-focus for me in the '70s (and there were a lot!) became artists who set out to SOUND LIKE Spector (or approximate his results, if only on this song or that, rather than build their total sound like that)....Artists like Roy Wood, his ELO bud, Jeff Lynne, the Raspberries, Beach Boys even Springsteen.....I had and "couldn't get" his 1st 2 albums. He comes with the proudly-admitted Spector-cop of "Born to Run," and I was SO, then, into him (as so many others became)!
I could stand to do an article collecting just those artists....who set out to sound like a Spector production! I just did that, 3 weeks ago, to the Beach Boys...artists who intentionally recorded an original song performed and recorded as if by the BBs: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/grow-bigger-ears-19-beach-boys-sound
I'll read before I comment more substantively, but just dropping in to say that yes re; Bruce. His original live piano-only version of Thunder Road is transcendent compared to the one that made the cut. I'll never get why he didn't leave it that way and spectorized it instead, other than I suppose a youthful desire to rock the arena. I don't know if there's an equivalent of Born to Run, but if there is, I bet it's a similar situation.
I know you've head this, everyone has, but in case there's someone reading who isn't everyone yet...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgRC8n2zuHY
Also I suspect Lennon's love affair with Spector was half to do with his passion for Motown girl groups, and partly to do with wanting, during that period, to piss people off and be around other people who pissed people off. (Harry Nillson being another example, and I can never spell that right and am too lazy to look it up.)
That acoustic Thunder Road was quite impressive. Not sure I'd heard it before. I imagine Appel, Landau and Bruce had a vision for what they wanted the album to sound like....with Bruce's key input, of course. As for Lennon, that sounds like him...but, yes, John's love of '50s rock'n'roll + girl groups (Motown and Spector's) probably fueled his desire to record with Spector.
This was a great song back in the day. The Tracey Ullman Show was also criminally underrated. it's also one of the few places viewers can see Simpson's voice actors Dan Castellaneta and Julie Kavner acting in front of the camera.
All good points, Kevin! Few people know (or have forgotten) about Castellaneta and Kavner's (beyond her Brenda turn in "Rhoda") live acting chops!
I adore this song and Tracey's version. Thanks for this!
Thanks, Matt! It's been fun doing the deep dive (dives I know you're familiar with doing your engaging Elvis Costello pieces, which I heartily recommend to all)!
It's also been enlightening to field the Kirsty/Tracey comparisons (on FB, in particular) and hear each "camp" rightfully voice their preferences! Plus, I've been sent quite a few "TDK" covers I wasn't aware of!
Enjoyed this look back. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, Glenn! Certainly a fun dive, and it's amazing how many covers of Kirsty's song there are! I've also found a new appreciation of Kirsty's songwriting talents overall, and have a new song fave....her "Terry" (which Tracey covered)!