"The Revenge of Alice Cooper" to drop in July. Stream counts & time will tell if the planet will respond with "The Revenge of The Listening Public"! Can an "I'm Seventy-Seven" single be far behind?👴
I'm happy to see the original members recording new material with Ezrin, but as someone else says here, I'm a little scared to hear it. . . I generally feel that "you can't go home again" with stuff like this. On the other hand, at least they're not just re-hashing old hits and I support that whole-heartedly!
I've never been a big fan of Alice as a solo artist (though I respect him as a person from what I know), but the original AC Band was amazing, and I rate "Killer" and "School's Out" as two of my all-time favorite albums. While the band was great, producer Bob Ezrin's contributions cannot be underestimated - he was to Alice Cooper (the band) what George Martin was to The Beatles - a full-fledged creative collaborator.
My vinyl copies of those 2 LPs, by the way, are both mint white-label promos, and "School's Out" has both the banned panties and the report card. Two of the rarer and most cherished LPs in my collection.
That's scary, Hugh.....you said it. I thought it, but YOU said it! Nicely done....."Ezrin was to Cooper what Martin was to The Beatles"! It's true....If you had any "5th Beatle" (and, we can all have fun with Billy Preston, or whomever else) 'twas Martin...as responsible for the recorded Beatles sound as J,P,G & R!
I draw the same comparison to Alan Tarney's production work with Cliff Richard, late-'70/early-'80s. Tarney knew what he could do (both with his own compositions, as well as production) with Richard at that point in his career, and Richard liked the sound Tarney got (so did a-ha)!
There are many other producer/artist "marriages" that were no less influential (an article focusing on those dynamics would be killer....to borrow from Alice)!
BTW, I had those same white label promos, panties, report card and all! I trust your die-cut desk could still stand up?!?!? I'm assuming you got your copies in the day, and from direct sources, but if you bought any albums from a Texan on eBay around the turn of the century (this one), you may have one of my 2,000 former vinyl buddies!😁💿
"There are many other producer/artist "marriages" that were no less influential (an article focusing on those dynamics would be killer....to borrow from Alice)!"
That is a great topic for a Substack deep-dive, and you might be just the guy to put it together Brad!
I'm not sure who else would qualify on quite the level of G. Martin or B. Ezrin and their respective bands, but possibly Jack Douglas with Aerosmith or Quincy Jones with MJ?
You know the pop world better that I do and I'm guessing there are more examples there than in hard rock. G. Moroder with Donna Summer? Not exactly a band situation but certainly a producer directly involved with making the music . . .
Anyway, something to think about.
My 'School's Out' LP pre-dates your eBay sales, so unfortunately not from the Kyle 'family.' And yes, my die-cut desk would stand up fine but of course I prefer to keep it untouched!
(I'm guessing there may be people reading this thinking "wtf are they going on about?") -
Oh yeah, the Moroder/Summer and Q'n'MJ examples are totally apt....they got together with each party instinctively knowing what the other could bring to the ("It's My") party....sorry, Q....and QJ deserves an article all by himself, just for the production of both Lesley Gore and MJ, but also for being one of the first Black record execs (and so much more, like a jazz giant)!
Jack Douglas and Aerosmith are perfect, as would be Jimmy Ienner and Raspberries (he produced all 4 of their albums)! What particularly fascinates me are the pairings that come together with a new-found goal (like Richard and Tarney)....careers fairly well along, and artist wants a new angle/new sound....like, 'twas Tarney who brought the "old-sound" Richard into the '80s with a sonic song-scape that easily merged with the MTV gen (and made Richard relevant again)!
And, pairings that created a sound the artist never did find again. I'm noticing that Springsteen and Jon Landau did several albums together early (although Landau, curiously, always had help, if only from Bruce), but an argument could be made that 'twas Landau who had as big a hand as any for shaping the Springsteen sound we all came to know.
I had no idea the desk was re-issued...now, apparently, with fire-retardant panties! I remember reading about all that at the time in Circular, as they (Barry Hansen, I'm guessing!) was talking about re-calls and whether or not to re-issue without panties altogether or make 'em again, just safer!
So, let me get this straight: The record label who had such a problem with a painted-on panty in 1969 to the point where a yellow, cover-up sticker was employed, was the same label who slapped a pair of panties on their record a couple years later?!?!🤪
It's pretty good..and it's amazing to see them making new music. I've always been a COOPER fan. Actually talked to Michael Bruce a few times, and he's a super nice person.
Dunaway's book I was unaware of....have to look into that, Nat! Yes, I was thinking much the same thing....so many things are different since the early '70s....their young age, of course, but the motivation....sticking out in a crowded rock field, with the mega-promotion by a major label, and the constant touring and promo visits, etc! Good on 'em for still pluggin', but, as I felt so keenly on the final Genesis/Collins tour 2-3 years ago, it was borderline sad and painful to watch (Collins, particularly), but, by the same token....in ANY shape, I'm glad he's out there!
So, even if The Group "only" has the record and doesn't tour, how much of a "spectacle"/curiosity can it ultimately be, regardless of how earnest their effort, and how hard we, the audience, try as hard as we can to accept it for what it is, and keep our expectations in check?
Me too, Nat! If they're not gonna tour, I wonder if they'd be game to do one filmed performance, and have it air or stream PPV (or whatever), with proceeds going to charity!
Alice is someone whose music I don't care for, but I have an awesome respect for his leadership and human qualities. He promises fun, teen-age entertainment, and that's what he delivers.
Well said, Albert! And, all that was certainly true for me, back in '69 when I first "dropped needle" on his albums, at 14! Plus, he does seem like a regular bloke and a nice guy. I know when I was reading the rock mags in the '70s, they made him out to be just a regular guy who liked to do nothing more than drink a beer and watch "Leave It to Beaver" re-runs! Oh, and golf!! Thanks, Albert....happy to have you here, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE!
Alice Cooper fan here, so I'm excited he's coming out with a new album. "Poison" is one of my favorites. Plus I used to listen to his radio show when he was on our local rock station and he was entertaining as well as very supportive of new artists. And I've recently learned that he had Orianthi and then Nita Strauss tour with him as guitarists, very supportive of women (as you relate about his daughter). Also admire him for still rockin' after all this time!
I came across Orianthi in my research for this...hadn't realized she worked with him. Still rockin', yeah, and cool that all who are still with us are game to be doing the new album!
I did read your Desmond Child article when it came out, very interesting guy whose name pops up a lot. You do seem to find intriguing people to write about whom no one else covers. I find it really helpful in understanding the biz.
Thanks, Ellen.....I kinda figured you'd read it....I looked at its date, and said to myself...."She's been here since then"! And, you pinpointed why I'm here, Ellen....from the mid-'60s thru the '70s, I had free access to virtually everything released by the major labels (and many minor)!
I figure most everyone else here was "raised on radio," so my main focus here is to shine a spotlight on those artists who are talented and worthy of hearing, but never had that lucky dice-roll of getting airplay, and the resultant sales that often follows (which is why I was thrilled to pieces when Stephen Michael Schwartz and I collided for our 20 collabs...he's a perfect example of that dynamic)!
Similarly, as many/most people today know of D. Child's songwriting success and prowess, few know he was on Capitol for two albums as Desmond Child & Rouge! So, that's my mission here, which I know you know, but for those who may be new here!
I'm so appreciative of your regular feedback, Ellen....it helps motivate me to keep doin' what I'm doin'!😊👍🎵
That is a noble cause given the perversity of the music industry. I don't know how often I've read that labels decided not to support artists with marketing. Artists couldn't possibly get traction when their label wouldn't even put any money into getting airplay. So it's great you are giving them visibility now, because the songs are often really good and well worth a listen.
Happy to give feedback. Most writers and commenters in this rock 'n' roll space are male, so I am aware of my responsibility and privilege to give feedback from a female perspective. I'm used to working in all-male environments, so I feel quite comfortable with that. And people by and large are well-intentioned and civil on Substack, so that makes it feel like a supportive place.
Well said! I know you'll enjoy this Tuesday's Tune Tag! Our guest will be Gayle Ramage of "Music, Movies, Stories, and Mutterings," and she does an incredible job....some eye-popping and unexpected tags!
Dang, Bob.....I think you out-concert-ticket-ed me! I saw them two, maybe three, times....I know I saw the "Killer" show, and that may have been the last one! That was in the U of Houston's Hofheinz Pavilion, where college basketball was usually played! But, yeah...always a great show! Thanks so much!!
I saw the band twice in '87 and again in '90. Portland and Seattle. I remember the body builder guitar player he had at the time. The guillotine was also really cool.
The Amazing Randi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi) helped him, early on, to perfect the illusion aspects of Alice's shows, including the gallows and guillotine!
Great read as always! I don't know the first thing about Alice Cooper, but crazy how prude some labels like Warner were back in the day! Also the double standards on the part of some: I'm sure the fact it was a woman didn't help. Or did albums like Sticky Fingers and Nevermind receive similar treatment?
Thanks, Andy......I hear ya about the double-standards! You got me thinkin'!
About that first album's "stickered" graphics: That painting was actually hanging on Frank Zappa's wall, and 'twas he who suggested that be the cover for the band's first album on Frank's own new label, Straight.
Frank was never a stranger to the controversial, and probably thought the painting would gain the album extra attention! I'm guessing Warners bent to pressure from retail who didn't want to be hearing blowback from middle America about such "filth" on display!
As you know, another "known name" (Andy Warhol) was responsible for designing the "Sticky Fingers" graphics, so there's a similar "powerful influence" in play for both, with the Stones album coming out just two years after "Pretties for You" (and the Stones, by that time, had a known and successful track record that Zappa and Alice didn't enjoy in '69, which may have led to Warners' over-reactionary, and silly, sticker)!
It STILL is amazing double standards, but context helps understand the possible whys and wherefores (and, I'm just guessing!). I think the twenty years it took to get to "Nevermind" (with smaller CD booklet artwork area to boot!) made enough of a "societal shift" to forego such brow-furrowing and hand-wringing!
But (as we discovered on a recent Tune Tag), how "expensive" it ended up being for the Nirvana baby model in emotional grief as he grew up....
And, the year before "Pretties For You," Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Ladyland" with a gaggle of nekkid, topless ladies appeared on the front cover...but, only in the UK! In America, there's no way Warners (Jimi was on subsidiary, Reprise Records) was having any of that!
No need for crossword puzzles today, Andy! You just helped me get my daily brain workout!!!!💪😁👍🎵
Thank you, Brad! You raise very good points and you are right in contextualising. In many cases, the specific circumstances (who, when, where, by whom, how, etc.) will dictate the main drivers behind certain decisions, like the examples you mention. I just find --and I'm speaking in generic terms here-- that when it comes to showing a bit of skin and/or portraying a more sexual image, women receive much tougher treatment than men, especially perhaps in the states (in my native Argentina is worse, but here in the UK, all in all, that particular point tends to be perhaps less pronounced than in the states, especially here in London). And let's not even mention some middle eastern countries, where female album covers get, well, covered! See for yourself 😂
But well, jokes aside, that's got to do with a whole bunch of religious and cultural implications, which transcend the music industry and which I'm not going to get into today.
But it's interesting to see how here in the west, in a subtler, perhaps more insidious way, female artists have been, by and large, more censored, or less "forgiven" than male artists when doing this kind of stuff!
Glad I got you thinking... it works both ways! When I tell you FR&B is my continued music education... I ain't kidding! 😄
Your next-to-last paragraph.....isn't that weird? A broad (possibly cynical) brush might assume that all the cigar-chomping, harrumphing label heads would love to have EVERY album proudly display boobies galore, and would, thus, deem male members as far too threatening and off-putting!
I appreciate the Mariah examples and the reminder of worldwide cultural differences....that's certainly a key component of the differences in publicity "there and here". Overall, in the U.S. (TV ads, movies produced, record jackets), titillation has played a part in a lot of the hedonistic "s*x sells" (and who's buying?) western ethos! Great discussion...lots to consider!😉
Yet another interesting point you raise, and I have pondered over that exact same thing: why, considering the male-dominated, macho atmosphere of most record personnel at the time, did female artists typically receive so much bashing when going too sexual? I think one of the reasons is because, sadly, female artists have always been taken less seriously, generally speaking. They had to work extra hard to prove their worth as musicians, tone down their appearance, grab a piano or guitar and show they mean “business”. This is why artists like Carole King or Joni Mitchell have always been more revered than, say, those with a more feminine (stereotypically feminine) image with the same or more talent and success than those who chose to tone themselves down in order to be admitted in the old boys’ club. It’s got to do with territory and barriers to entry. Fortunately some of these old habits are fading, but there’s still a long way to go.
Certainly a very interesting discussion here! We’re getting philosophical, so let me quote philosopher Ciccone, who has seen her fair share of censorship throughout the years: “Did I say something wrong? Oops, I didn’t know I couldn’t talk about sex. Did I have a point of view? Oops, I didn’t know I couldn’t speak my mind”. 😅
Ah, the welcome quote from Madge the Magician! Well, she certainly WOULD have a lot to say on the subject!
I have a story I think I'll share with you on DMs....I brought it up Friday in our Google Meet....a nice, comfy group of 4 or 5.
It has to do with the "seriousness" an artist begins their career with....you mentioned King and Mitchell, and they entered their respective careers as stone-cold, mega-talented artists (Ms. King with an awfully impressive '60s-long hit songwriting career), so, there's no way they (along with their management) would put up with ANY such shenanigans (like skimpy clothes or sultry lighting on the cover). I'll pick up on the male side of the equation (with personal anecdotes) on DMs shortly...what I brought up in our recent Meet!
Thanks! It all makes a lot of sense, and it’s interesting to see how some of these things have by and large transcended generations. A lot of things have changed, true, but a lot of other things have always had a tendency to be a certain way…
Well Brad, I was only a little older than 18 when "I'm 18" came out. I was in college in Boulder, and Alice was one of the first major rock stars I interviewed: a press brunch at Denver's Brown Palace hotel, which I wrote about for the Colorado Daily and posted on my 'stack. And Alice was practically our mascot at Creem: May have been the first "Boy Howdy" beer ad. I don't expect a song about "77." I would bet on a song about Pickleball!
Great stuff, Wayne.....thanks! From what I've read and heard about Alice is that he was not at all the stuffy "I'm-all-that" rock star, and was happy to do things like those incredible "Boy Howdy" ads! I eagerly await a Pickleball song....from anyone, frankly!!😁
I'm happy to see the original members recording new material with Ezrin, but as someone else says here, I'm a little scared to hear it. . . I generally feel that "you can't go home again" with stuff like this. On the other hand, at least they're not just re-hashing old hits and I support that whole-heartedly!
I've never been a big fan of Alice as a solo artist (though I respect him as a person from what I know), but the original AC Band was amazing, and I rate "Killer" and "School's Out" as two of my all-time favorite albums. While the band was great, producer Bob Ezrin's contributions cannot be underestimated - he was to Alice Cooper (the band) what George Martin was to The Beatles - a full-fledged creative collaborator.
My vinyl copies of those 2 LPs, by the way, are both mint white-label promos, and "School's Out" has both the banned panties and the report card. Two of the rarer and most cherished LPs in my collection.
That's scary, Hugh.....you said it. I thought it, but YOU said it! Nicely done....."Ezrin was to Cooper what Martin was to The Beatles"! It's true....If you had any "5th Beatle" (and, we can all have fun with Billy Preston, or whomever else) 'twas Martin...as responsible for the recorded Beatles sound as J,P,G & R!
I draw the same comparison to Alan Tarney's production work with Cliff Richard, late-'70/early-'80s. Tarney knew what he could do (both with his own compositions, as well as production) with Richard at that point in his career, and Richard liked the sound Tarney got (so did a-ha)!
There are many other producer/artist "marriages" that were no less influential (an article focusing on those dynamics would be killer....to borrow from Alice)!
BTW, I had those same white label promos, panties, report card and all! I trust your die-cut desk could still stand up?!?!? I'm assuming you got your copies in the day, and from direct sources, but if you bought any albums from a Texan on eBay around the turn of the century (this one), you may have one of my 2,000 former vinyl buddies!😁💿
"There are many other producer/artist "marriages" that were no less influential (an article focusing on those dynamics would be killer....to borrow from Alice)!"
That is a great topic for a Substack deep-dive, and you might be just the guy to put it together Brad!
I'm not sure who else would qualify on quite the level of G. Martin or B. Ezrin and their respective bands, but possibly Jack Douglas with Aerosmith or Quincy Jones with MJ?
You know the pop world better that I do and I'm guessing there are more examples there than in hard rock. G. Moroder with Donna Summer? Not exactly a band situation but certainly a producer directly involved with making the music . . .
Anyway, something to think about.
My 'School's Out' LP pre-dates your eBay sales, so unfortunately not from the Kyle 'family.' And yes, my die-cut desk would stand up fine but of course I prefer to keep it untouched!
(I'm guessing there may be people reading this thinking "wtf are they going on about?") -
https://nailcityrecord.com/products/alice-cooper-schools-out-limited-anniversary-edition-die-cut-desk-cover-and-panties
Oh yeah, the Moroder/Summer and Q'n'MJ examples are totally apt....they got together with each party instinctively knowing what the other could bring to the ("It's My") party....sorry, Q....and QJ deserves an article all by himself, just for the production of both Lesley Gore and MJ, but also for being one of the first Black record execs (and so much more, like a jazz giant)!
Jack Douglas and Aerosmith are perfect, as would be Jimmy Ienner and Raspberries (he produced all 4 of their albums)! What particularly fascinates me are the pairings that come together with a new-found goal (like Richard and Tarney)....careers fairly well along, and artist wants a new angle/new sound....like, 'twas Tarney who brought the "old-sound" Richard into the '80s with a sonic song-scape that easily merged with the MTV gen (and made Richard relevant again)!
And, pairings that created a sound the artist never did find again. I'm noticing that Springsteen and Jon Landau did several albums together early (although Landau, curiously, always had help, if only from Bruce), but an argument could be made that 'twas Landau who had as big a hand as any for shaping the Springsteen sound we all came to know.
I had no idea the desk was re-issued...now, apparently, with fire-retardant panties! I remember reading about all that at the time in Circular, as they (Barry Hansen, I'm guessing!) was talking about re-calls and whether or not to re-issue without panties altogether or make 'em again, just safer!
So, let me get this straight: The record label who had such a problem with a painted-on panty in 1969 to the point where a yellow, cover-up sticker was employed, was the same label who slapped a pair of panties on their record a couple years later?!?!🤪
It's pretty good..and it's amazing to see them making new music. I've always been a COOPER fan. Actually talked to Michael Bruce a few times, and he's a super nice person.
Love the group! “Love it to Death” is amazing and Dennis Dunaway’s book is fantastic! That being said I’m scarred to listen to the new stuff, haha
Dunaway's book I was unaware of....have to look into that, Nat! Yes, I was thinking much the same thing....so many things are different since the early '70s....their young age, of course, but the motivation....sticking out in a crowded rock field, with the mega-promotion by a major label, and the constant touring and promo visits, etc! Good on 'em for still pluggin', but, as I felt so keenly on the final Genesis/Collins tour 2-3 years ago, it was borderline sad and painful to watch (Collins, particularly), but, by the same token....in ANY shape, I'm glad he's out there!
So, even if The Group "only" has the record and doesn't tour, how much of a "spectacle"/curiosity can it ultimately be, regardless of how earnest their effort, and how hard we, the audience, try as hard as we can to accept it for what it is, and keep our expectations in check?
Fingers crossed, and good luck, guys!!
So true!
I’m glad they are getting back together, regardless! I think it’s excellent!
Me too, Nat! If they're not gonna tour, I wonder if they'd be game to do one filmed performance, and have it air or stream PPV (or whatever), with proceeds going to charity!
That would be awesome!
Alice is someone whose music I don't care for, but I have an awesome respect for his leadership and human qualities. He promises fun, teen-age entertainment, and that's what he delivers.
Well said, Albert! And, all that was certainly true for me, back in '69 when I first "dropped needle" on his albums, at 14! Plus, he does seem like a regular bloke and a nice guy. I know when I was reading the rock mags in the '70s, they made him out to be just a regular guy who liked to do nothing more than drink a beer and watch "Leave It to Beaver" re-runs! Oh, and golf!! Thanks, Albert....happy to have you here, FRONT ROW & BACKSTAGE!
Alice Cooper fan here, so I'm excited he's coming out with a new album. "Poison" is one of my favorites. Plus I used to listen to his radio show when he was on our local rock station and he was entertaining as well as very supportive of new artists. And I've recently learned that he had Orianthi and then Nita Strauss tour with him as guitarists, very supportive of women (as you relate about his daughter). Also admire him for still rockin' after all this time!
I love "Poison" too! Used to sing it in karaoke a decade ago! That's a Desmond Child joint! Co-written with Alice and guitarist, John McCurry. I featured Child in this article, from when he was a recording artist a decade before "Poison" (and became the "male Diane Warren"!): https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/audio-autopsy-1979-the-artistic-birth?utm_source=publication-search
I came across Orianthi in my research for this...hadn't realized she worked with him. Still rockin', yeah, and cool that all who are still with us are game to be doing the new album!
I did read your Desmond Child article when it came out, very interesting guy whose name pops up a lot. You do seem to find intriguing people to write about whom no one else covers. I find it really helpful in understanding the biz.
Thanks, Ellen.....I kinda figured you'd read it....I looked at its date, and said to myself...."She's been here since then"! And, you pinpointed why I'm here, Ellen....from the mid-'60s thru the '70s, I had free access to virtually everything released by the major labels (and many minor)!
I figure most everyone else here was "raised on radio," so my main focus here is to shine a spotlight on those artists who are talented and worthy of hearing, but never had that lucky dice-roll of getting airplay, and the resultant sales that often follows (which is why I was thrilled to pieces when Stephen Michael Schwartz and I collided for our 20 collabs...he's a perfect example of that dynamic)!
Similarly, as many/most people today know of D. Child's songwriting success and prowess, few know he was on Capitol for two albums as Desmond Child & Rouge! So, that's my mission here, which I know you know, but for those who may be new here!
I'm so appreciative of your regular feedback, Ellen....it helps motivate me to keep doin' what I'm doin'!😊👍🎵
That is a noble cause given the perversity of the music industry. I don't know how often I've read that labels decided not to support artists with marketing. Artists couldn't possibly get traction when their label wouldn't even put any money into getting airplay. So it's great you are giving them visibility now, because the songs are often really good and well worth a listen.
Happy to give feedback. Most writers and commenters in this rock 'n' roll space are male, so I am aware of my responsibility and privilege to give feedback from a female perspective. I'm used to working in all-male environments, so I feel quite comfortable with that. And people by and large are well-intentioned and civil on Substack, so that makes it feel like a supportive place.
Well said! I know you'll enjoy this Tuesday's Tune Tag! Our guest will be Gayle Ramage of "Music, Movies, Stories, and Mutterings," and she does an incredible job....some eye-popping and unexpected tags!
https://gayleramage.substack.com/
Another great read.
I only have managed to see Alice four times in concert. Always a great show.
Dang, Bob.....I think you out-concert-ticket-ed me! I saw them two, maybe three, times....I know I saw the "Killer" show, and that may have been the last one! That was in the U of Houston's Hofheinz Pavilion, where college basketball was usually played! But, yeah...always a great show! Thanks so much!!
I saw the band twice in '87 and again in '90. Portland and Seattle. I remember the body builder guitar player he had at the time. The guillotine was also really cool.
The Amazing Randi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi) helped him, early on, to perfect the illusion aspects of Alice's shows, including the gallows and guillotine!
Alice's body-building guitarist? You must mean Kane Roberts, who carried a machine gun-guitar!👉 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=506767304607209&id=100058218305109&set=a.152310250052918 💪
yes indeed. Kane Roberts, that's him. Had some pretty good solos and did a great job.
Great read as always! I don't know the first thing about Alice Cooper, but crazy how prude some labels like Warner were back in the day! Also the double standards on the part of some: I'm sure the fact it was a woman didn't help. Or did albums like Sticky Fingers and Nevermind receive similar treatment?
Thanks, Andy......I hear ya about the double-standards! You got me thinkin'!
About that first album's "stickered" graphics: That painting was actually hanging on Frank Zappa's wall, and 'twas he who suggested that be the cover for the band's first album on Frank's own new label, Straight.
Frank was never a stranger to the controversial, and probably thought the painting would gain the album extra attention! I'm guessing Warners bent to pressure from retail who didn't want to be hearing blowback from middle America about such "filth" on display!
As you know, another "known name" (Andy Warhol) was responsible for designing the "Sticky Fingers" graphics, so there's a similar "powerful influence" in play for both, with the Stones album coming out just two years after "Pretties for You" (and the Stones, by that time, had a known and successful track record that Zappa and Alice didn't enjoy in '69, which may have led to Warners' over-reactionary, and silly, sticker)!
It STILL is amazing double standards, but context helps understand the possible whys and wherefores (and, I'm just guessing!). I think the twenty years it took to get to "Nevermind" (with smaller CD booklet artwork area to boot!) made enough of a "societal shift" to forego such brow-furrowing and hand-wringing!
But (as we discovered on a recent Tune Tag), how "expensive" it ended up being for the Nirvana baby model in emotional grief as he grew up....
And, the year before "Pretties For You," Jimi Hendrix's "Electric Ladyland" with a gaggle of nekkid, topless ladies appeared on the front cover...but, only in the UK! In America, there's no way Warners (Jimi was on subsidiary, Reprise Records) was having any of that!
No need for crossword puzzles today, Andy! You just helped me get my daily brain workout!!!!💪😁👍🎵
Thank you, Brad! You raise very good points and you are right in contextualising. In many cases, the specific circumstances (who, when, where, by whom, how, etc.) will dictate the main drivers behind certain decisions, like the examples you mention. I just find --and I'm speaking in generic terms here-- that when it comes to showing a bit of skin and/or portraying a more sexual image, women receive much tougher treatment than men, especially perhaps in the states (in my native Argentina is worse, but here in the UK, all in all, that particular point tends to be perhaps less pronounced than in the states, especially here in London). And let's not even mention some middle eastern countries, where female album covers get, well, covered! See for yourself 😂
https://www.google.co.uk/search?sca_esv=66208f42850f9683&q=mariah+carey+saudi+arabia+covers&udm=2&fbs=ABzOT_CWdhQLP1FcmU5B0fn3xuWpA-dk4wpBWOGsoR7DG5zJBjLjqIC1CYKD9D-DQAQS3Z44LBK6yTXN_5587Z3ya9D7rdSpU4oiZ-vqI3S9pgZWwwB3LRDwatyHNDj5PPNIP3O9LeuTlkH2sZZEnhZo46WW8dmhgYyWk-CayTWX1GZ9eEYPairggklKerSMDxaEdATd2U52Nx2yFrTdCysVGLa_jYhYnw&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi2-PLOk6qNAxXwSUEAHXVEJ-AQtKgLegQIFRAB&biw=1512&bih=795&dpr=2
Some of them are a bit funny, I must admit!
But well, jokes aside, that's got to do with a whole bunch of religious and cultural implications, which transcend the music industry and which I'm not going to get into today.
But it's interesting to see how here in the west, in a subtler, perhaps more insidious way, female artists have been, by and large, more censored, or less "forgiven" than male artists when doing this kind of stuff!
Glad I got you thinking... it works both ways! When I tell you FR&B is my continued music education... I ain't kidding! 😄
Your next-to-last paragraph.....isn't that weird? A broad (possibly cynical) brush might assume that all the cigar-chomping, harrumphing label heads would love to have EVERY album proudly display boobies galore, and would, thus, deem male members as far too threatening and off-putting!
I appreciate the Mariah examples and the reminder of worldwide cultural differences....that's certainly a key component of the differences in publicity "there and here". Overall, in the U.S. (TV ads, movies produced, record jackets), titillation has played a part in a lot of the hedonistic "s*x sells" (and who's buying?) western ethos! Great discussion...lots to consider!😉
Yet another interesting point you raise, and I have pondered over that exact same thing: why, considering the male-dominated, macho atmosphere of most record personnel at the time, did female artists typically receive so much bashing when going too sexual? I think one of the reasons is because, sadly, female artists have always been taken less seriously, generally speaking. They had to work extra hard to prove their worth as musicians, tone down their appearance, grab a piano or guitar and show they mean “business”. This is why artists like Carole King or Joni Mitchell have always been more revered than, say, those with a more feminine (stereotypically feminine) image with the same or more talent and success than those who chose to tone themselves down in order to be admitted in the old boys’ club. It’s got to do with territory and barriers to entry. Fortunately some of these old habits are fading, but there’s still a long way to go.
Certainly a very interesting discussion here! We’re getting philosophical, so let me quote philosopher Ciccone, who has seen her fair share of censorship throughout the years: “Did I say something wrong? Oops, I didn’t know I couldn’t talk about sex. Did I have a point of view? Oops, I didn’t know I couldn’t speak my mind”. 😅
Ah, the welcome quote from Madge the Magician! Well, she certainly WOULD have a lot to say on the subject!
I have a story I think I'll share with you on DMs....I brought it up Friday in our Google Meet....a nice, comfy group of 4 or 5.
It has to do with the "seriousness" an artist begins their career with....you mentioned King and Mitchell, and they entered their respective careers as stone-cold, mega-talented artists (Ms. King with an awfully impressive '60s-long hit songwriting career), so, there's no way they (along with their management) would put up with ANY such shenanigans (like skimpy clothes or sultry lighting on the cover). I'll pick up on the male side of the equation (with personal anecdotes) on DMs shortly...what I brought up in our recent Meet!
She would indeed, wouldn’t she?! 🤣
Thanks! It all makes a lot of sense, and it’s interesting to see how some of these things have by and large transcended generations. A lot of things have changed, true, but a lot of other things have always had a tendency to be a certain way…
Thanks for all the food for thought!
Well Brad, I was only a little older than 18 when "I'm 18" came out. I was in college in Boulder, and Alice was one of the first major rock stars I interviewed: a press brunch at Denver's Brown Palace hotel, which I wrote about for the Colorado Daily and posted on my 'stack. And Alice was practically our mascot at Creem: May have been the first "Boy Howdy" beer ad. I don't expect a song about "77." I would bet on a song about Pickleball!
Great stuff, Wayne.....thanks! From what I've read and heard about Alice is that he was not at all the stuffy "I'm-all-that" rock star, and was happy to do things like those incredible "Boy Howdy" ads! I eagerly await a Pickleball song....from anyone, frankly!!😁