I certainly share your desires, Dan (at least regarding pics)!! Keep in mind we're talking '73, and Polaroids and Brownies were pretty much the law of the photographic land at the time! Had there been cell phones, you'd be able to take your pick of dozens, if not hundreds!
True dat, my fellow boot-scootin' scribin' Steve! I must say when they emerged from the parking garage hallway onto the second floor concourse (the first time I witnessed their arrival that day), I was stunned they looked like their cover! What, no t-shirt and jeans, I must've been wondering! The real deal, they.
The idea of the Dolls wandering around/through a shopping mall is one I can't quite wrap my head around. That's some serious rock n roll weirdness. I love it!
And, while I was certainly excited about the prospect of that fabulousness, on the other hand, it was just like meeting with friends kinda thing. See my reply elsewhere talking about comfort level of "stars" with me (and why) and mine with them! Thanks to my immersion into "their world" (records, endless pouring thru rock mags of the day, scouring liner notes), I felt like I was a part of their world far more than not of it.
Loved this, Brad. Really captures a time and place and your life in that time and place. And it doesn't hurt that I'm a fan of the Dolls and Rundgren (as a producer especially: XTC "Skylarking" is one of the best produced albums of the 80s...and best albums of the 80s in my book).
Thanks, Matt! A running thread thru my meeting these folks is that they all clearly seemed to be comfortable with me (Ramones inviting me to their room, Dolls asking me to show 'em around, Tom Robinson--and his people!--trusting me to take him--IN MY CAR....ALONE, yet-- to jam with some punk friends of mine, etc). I was obviously no shallow fan boy!
What made ME so comfortable with them was (now that I think about it) was my vast familiarity with their music, liner notes, and vast info gathered from copious reading of the day's rock mags! I was never hounding them with questions, and they could see I was genuinely eager to just be with them for them, not as rock stars, and unlike groupies and the press, I wanted nothing from them (well, maybe from Dee Dee as we sat on the floor next to each other leaning against the dresser........but, that's best saved for the book)!
Why am I blanking on who Tom Robinson is? Is that Tom Verlaine’s real name? And can’t wait to read about your Dee Dee story. Sounds illicit and awesome.
It was all the Rock Hall could do, it seems, to FINALLY induct Todd! A litany of incredible productions, group recordings, solo recordings, visionary videos, a computer-in-music vanguard, a heralded member of Ringo's All-Starr Band....what more need he do?!? But, we could ask that question of many an artist the Hall is still yawning on! Thanks, Andrew! I'm happy to hear you've been on Todd for a while!
And, good on ya.....a good sign you weren't suckling on the fallow teat of AM radio! I love that "destined to love" phrase.....to paraphrase Ed McMahon: "You are CORRECT, sir!"
That, my musical friend, is allowed! Long drives with local radio as you pass thru towns is part of pop culture! And, farm reports? Please! HIGH-larious! Especially to a city boy! I JUST today discovered (on Sirius/XM in my car) RURAL Radio (their all-caps, for some reason)! I'm gonna drop the needle a few times....if it's cattle appraising, farm realty, windmill sales, etc, I'm on board, at least during other channels' 5-minute ad breaks!
Wow, Brad, the Dolls in Texas. That was a culture clash better than the Sex Pistols because they hung around, went to the mall, kept coming back. I might have read too quickly, but am curious how they were received by the audience. Outside of NYC, the Dolls didn’t travel well: I watched them bomb in Detroit, a crucial flop that was the beginning of the end…
They certainly didn't bomb in either Dallas or Liberty Hall. I can't recall if the venues were full or sold out, but I remember nothing even close to my Randy's Rodeo/Pistols scene...spitting, Sid boppin' someone on the noggin with his bass!
My best recollection (especially at my "home" Liberty Hall, where many friends had gathered) is that only the LP-owning fans were there, and the lads gave great shows! No rabble-rousing cowboys🤠showed up to "show these girlies a thing or two"!!😂
You know this all too well, Wayne (and I experienced it far less frequently than you), but I dug how I always found someone in the band with whom I became friendly quickly and even, warmly. Dee Dee, Killer, Jimmy Zero to name three. Sylvain, though, must've been the outgoing one (to the point of being the planner of extra-curricular?), as I do recall he was the one who asked me about what to do in Houston on that Saturday!
I know.....putting the Dolls in Texas sounds like a match made in rock'n'roll Hades, but we behaved, I'm happy to report!!
Love the mall story -- can picture moms covering their kids' eyes -- given that my mom thought Simon and Garfunkle were out there. Oh, to revisit the days when people got it on in the bed while you tried to sleep on the hard floor. Very fun memories.
Thanks, E.Z.! Hotel floors....my only foray into that domain, and not like me, at all, to get up the courage to even ask! But, on the off-chance they might've acquiesced, then another (and far different) paragraph it would've made! Listen, I'm glad and surprised they even let me in the room at all, floor or no!!
Cool story, I keep trying to picture it. It's also hilarious that you suggested a mall in the first place. That's really inspired! Sort of Rocky Horror Show in reverse...
I do remember feeling (as I alluded to in the story) "put on the spot" when asked! I felt I had to think fast before the moment was gone! Nothing but my fave high school hangout spot came to mind! Also, it was an appropriate place for both them and myself, as there'd be so much going on (and things to see and do), neither of us would feel the need to entertain the other! I know I appreciated that element!
Then, you've come to the right place, Britta! And, today (8/5/23), FR&B celebrates 2 years on Substack! We now begin Year 3.........and, you are there!! Glad you're aboard!😊👍
I know....cool, ain't it? Here ya go, FR&B readers! Britta's brand new on the block....subscribe and support her here, and you can get in on the ground floor of Britta's Substack: https://brittap.substack.com/ and her most recent! Who knew the 3,000-mile-wide Atlantic Ocean was a dang good "recording studio"? https://brittap.substack.com/p/a-3000-mile-wide-recording-studio
I haven't put the two versions side by side, but I love all the personal aspects of this great piece. Trying to expand a hotel tryst, suggesting the Dolls visit the Mall, hanging with Rundgren....it all brings it to vivid life. You've sparked just the right amount of jealousy and awe. And I'm always impressed with the visual memorabilia you find to include.
"Two versions"? Are you talking about the now-deleted original Dolls/Todd article? I just wish I still had my collection and everything. The B&W promo poster (the Dolls debut album cover) was immense....a guess would be 3 ft x 4 ft, and likely larger. It, with everything else, was sold on eBay 2 decades ago. They all signed it (including Peter Jordan), and I taped about 8 playing cards to it.
Those cards David would routinely toss into the audience during one song (I forget which one), and I just simply picked them up off the floor. Keep in mind, for several decades, it was one of the posters I'd hang up in my bedroom wherever I lived.
As for the Liberty Hall/Dolls poster and the Gertie's/Dallas flyer, I had them both at one time, so being aware of their existence led me to do a search for them. That's my advantage: Without the actual promo records and other promo items (t-shirts, posters, bios, press kits, etc, I know they once existed, because I had them)! If one doesn't know they existed, they know not to search for them. If I still had this stuff, I'd be including MY photos of it all!!
Possibly the most jaw-dropping find was what popped up when I searched for one particular Elvis Costello yellow promo t-shirt. The one featured here might actually HAVE BEEN MINE that I sold on eBay!! It's a local Houston CBS Records promo shirt only available from the local Houston CBS rep office, so hundreds, not thousands or millions existed! Here 'tis: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/wholly-toledo-my-long-drive-to-find
The original post is really the heart of what you see now. I, literally, had no pix ( but one Todd and one Dolls) and NO music. The text is identical. Any new text are simply the captions under the new photos! The staying constant with the original text is what encouraged me to simply zap the original. And, "logging" the original pub date at the top brings that into focus, as well.
You now, in essence, can see the storytelling and archivist acumen growth in one swell foop, here!
Man, I so wish there were pics of you mall-walk-in’ with the Dolls!
I certainly share your desires, Dan (at least regarding pics)!! Keep in mind we're talking '73, and Polaroids and Brownies were pretty much the law of the photographic land at the time! Had there been cell phones, you'd be able to take your pick of dozens, if not hundreds!
Oh, I get it - there are only a handful of pics that exist from any given year of my childhood, for precisely the same reason!
Me too! But if there is one to be found, taken by a shopper and posted on some far away site, Brad'll find it and share it.
True dat, my fellow boot-scootin' scribin' Steve! I must say when they emerged from the parking garage hallway onto the second floor concourse (the first time I witnessed their arrival that day), I was stunned they looked like their cover! What, no t-shirt and jeans, I must've been wondering! The real deal, they.
The idea of the Dolls wandering around/through a shopping mall is one I can't quite wrap my head around. That's some serious rock n roll weirdness. I love it!
And, while I was certainly excited about the prospect of that fabulousness, on the other hand, it was just like meeting with friends kinda thing. See my reply elsewhere talking about comfort level of "stars" with me (and why) and mine with them! Thanks to my immersion into "their world" (records, endless pouring thru rock mags of the day, scouring liner notes), I felt like I was a part of their world far more than not of it.
Loved this, Brad. Really captures a time and place and your life in that time and place. And it doesn't hurt that I'm a fan of the Dolls and Rundgren (as a producer especially: XTC "Skylarking" is one of the best produced albums of the 80s...and best albums of the 80s in my book).
Thanks, Matt! A running thread thru my meeting these folks is that they all clearly seemed to be comfortable with me (Ramones inviting me to their room, Dolls asking me to show 'em around, Tom Robinson--and his people!--trusting me to take him--IN MY CAR....ALONE, yet-- to jam with some punk friends of mine, etc). I was obviously no shallow fan boy!
What made ME so comfortable with them was (now that I think about it) was my vast familiarity with their music, liner notes, and vast info gathered from copious reading of the day's rock mags! I was never hounding them with questions, and they could see I was genuinely eager to just be with them for them, not as rock stars, and unlike groupies and the press, I wanted nothing from them (well, maybe from Dee Dee as we sat on the floor next to each other leaning against the dresser........but, that's best saved for the book)!
I know you saw and enjoyed this, Matt, but I'll leave it for other readers: We did this, recently, on "Skylarking": https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/audio-autopsy-1986-xtc-and-season
Why am I blanking on who Tom Robinson is? Is that Tom Verlaine’s real name? And can’t wait to read about your Dee Dee story. Sounds illicit and awesome.
Here's the Robinson one....along with my story, I'll remind you of Tom here: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/midnight-at-the-fringe-with-tom-robinson
You’ve discovered a gap in my music nerdiness: I don’t know this guy. Just downloaded a best of compilation
I just finished Greg Graffin's autobiography (lead singer of Bad Religion). He had a lot of great things to say about recording with Rudgren.
I've always enjoyed Todd's diverse music.
It was all the Rock Hall could do, it seems, to FINALLY induct Todd! A litany of incredible productions, group recordings, solo recordings, visionary videos, a computer-in-music vanguard, a heralded member of Ringo's All-Starr Band....what more need he do?!? But, we could ask that question of many an artist the Hall is still yawning on! Thanks, Andrew! I'm happy to hear you've been on Todd for a while!
Like the second my adult musical tastes evolved beyond just punk rock, Todd was on a short list of artists I was destined to love. <3
And, good on ya.....a good sign you weren't suckling on the fallow teat of AM radio! I love that "destined to love" phrase.....to paraphrase Ed McMahon: "You are CORRECT, sir!"
I certainly had my fill of AM radio during some longer drives! Not interested in going back to that time!
That, my musical friend, is allowed! Long drives with local radio as you pass thru towns is part of pop culture! And, farm reports? Please! HIGH-larious! Especially to a city boy! I JUST today discovered (on Sirius/XM in my car) RURAL Radio (their all-caps, for some reason)! I'm gonna drop the needle a few times....if it's cattle appraising, farm realty, windmill sales, etc, I'm on board, at least during other channels' 5-minute ad breaks!
Off topic, but have you read the Bad Religion book, "Do What You Want"? It's next on my TBR pile, and I'm curious what you thought of it.
I have not! I bet it's really good, though.
Graffin's autobiography was half punk, half scientist. I really enjoyed that intersection.
I also realized that my own punk pioneering wasn't very far removed at all from Bad Religion's; I am exactly 10 years younger than Graffin.
Great stories! NY Dolls in a suburban mall, can't get the smile off my face.
Thanks, Hugh! Yes, it was nothing short of a scream or a hoot….take your pick! But, awfully nice gents! I got on particularly well with Killer Kane.
I hope you read that linked piece in that article….the one where I talk about Todd’s two ballplaying sons….I’m FB friends with Rex.
Wow, Brad, the Dolls in Texas. That was a culture clash better than the Sex Pistols because they hung around, went to the mall, kept coming back. I might have read too quickly, but am curious how they were received by the audience. Outside of NYC, the Dolls didn’t travel well: I watched them bomb in Detroit, a crucial flop that was the beginning of the end…
They certainly didn't bomb in either Dallas or Liberty Hall. I can't recall if the venues were full or sold out, but I remember nothing even close to my Randy's Rodeo/Pistols scene...spitting, Sid boppin' someone on the noggin with his bass!
My best recollection (especially at my "home" Liberty Hall, where many friends had gathered) is that only the LP-owning fans were there, and the lads gave great shows! No rabble-rousing cowboys🤠showed up to "show these girlies a thing or two"!!😂
You know this all too well, Wayne (and I experienced it far less frequently than you), but I dug how I always found someone in the band with whom I became friendly quickly and even, warmly. Dee Dee, Killer, Jimmy Zero to name three. Sylvain, though, must've been the outgoing one (to the point of being the planner of extra-curricular?), as I do recall he was the one who asked me about what to do in Houston on that Saturday!
I know.....putting the Dolls in Texas sounds like a match made in rock'n'roll Hades, but we behaved, I'm happy to report!!
Love the mall story -- can picture moms covering their kids' eyes -- given that my mom thought Simon and Garfunkle were out there. Oh, to revisit the days when people got it on in the bed while you tried to sleep on the hard floor. Very fun memories.
Thanks, E.Z.! Hotel floors....my only foray into that domain, and not like me, at all, to get up the courage to even ask! But, on the off-chance they might've acquiesced, then another (and far different) paragraph it would've made! Listen, I'm glad and surprised they even let me in the room at all, floor or no!!
Cool story, I keep trying to picture it. It's also hilarious that you suggested a mall in the first place. That's really inspired! Sort of Rocky Horror Show in reverse...
I do remember feeling (as I alluded to in the story) "put on the spot" when asked! I felt I had to think fast before the moment was gone! Nothing but my fave high school hangout spot came to mind! Also, it was an appropriate place for both them and myself, as there'd be so much going on (and things to see and do), neither of us would feel the need to entertain the other! I know I appreciated that element!
Well, as I said, an inspired choice!
Great stories!! Love a late 70’s secret portal!!
Then, you've come to the right place, Britta! And, today (8/5/23), FR&B celebrates 2 years on Substack! We now begin Year 3.........and, you are there!! Glad you're aboard!😊👍
I’m digging this Substack thing! Especially if it’s music related! I have lots to share too!
I know....cool, ain't it? Here ya go, FR&B readers! Britta's brand new on the block....subscribe and support her here, and you can get in on the ground floor of Britta's Substack: https://brittap.substack.com/ and her most recent! Who knew the 3,000-mile-wide Atlantic Ocean was a dang good "recording studio"? https://brittap.substack.com/p/a-3000-mile-wide-recording-studio
😁😁😁😁😁
I haven't put the two versions side by side, but I love all the personal aspects of this great piece. Trying to expand a hotel tryst, suggesting the Dolls visit the Mall, hanging with Rundgren....it all brings it to vivid life. You've sparked just the right amount of jealousy and awe. And I'm always impressed with the visual memorabilia you find to include.
"Two versions"? Are you talking about the now-deleted original Dolls/Todd article? I just wish I still had my collection and everything. The B&W promo poster (the Dolls debut album cover) was immense....a guess would be 3 ft x 4 ft, and likely larger. It, with everything else, was sold on eBay 2 decades ago. They all signed it (including Peter Jordan), and I taped about 8 playing cards to it.
Those cards David would routinely toss into the audience during one song (I forget which one), and I just simply picked them up off the floor. Keep in mind, for several decades, it was one of the posters I'd hang up in my bedroom wherever I lived.
As for the Liberty Hall/Dolls poster and the Gertie's/Dallas flyer, I had them both at one time, so being aware of their existence led me to do a search for them. That's my advantage: Without the actual promo records and other promo items (t-shirts, posters, bios, press kits, etc, I know they once existed, because I had them)! If one doesn't know they existed, they know not to search for them. If I still had this stuff, I'd be including MY photos of it all!!
Possibly the most jaw-dropping find was what popped up when I searched for one particular Elvis Costello yellow promo t-shirt. The one featured here might actually HAVE BEEN MINE that I sold on eBay!! It's a local Houston CBS Records promo shirt only available from the local Houston CBS rep office, so hundreds, not thousands or millions existed! Here 'tis: https://bradkyle.substack.com/p/wholly-toledo-my-long-drive-to-find
I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t leave the original post up so we can see how far you’ve come with your storytelling and archivist acumen.
The original post is really the heart of what you see now. I, literally, had no pix ( but one Todd and one Dolls) and NO music. The text is identical. Any new text are simply the captions under the new photos! The staying constant with the original text is what encouraged me to simply zap the original. And, "logging" the original pub date at the top brings that into focus, as well.
You now, in essence, can see the storytelling and archivist acumen growth in one swell foop, here!