Thank you for the invite and opportunity to collaborate with you, Brad. I know the Pretty Things aren't your cup of tea, but your willingness to listen and dive in to do a post is greatly appreciated. I also thank you for your enthusiasm, positivity, and genuine support.
In the age of the Internet, YouTube, eBay, Discogs, etc. where everything is easily attainable, it is easy to forget or not realize just how hard it was in 1986 to find rare videos, live shows, obscure albums, unreleased tracks/LPs, and even BBC sessions. In 1986, to trade across the country with somebody who had their finger on the pulse of a less familiar '60s British band was privileged gold to me. The videos you link in the post were amongst those rarities I was once sent on a VHS tape. While my friends were into more well-known classic rock, I was boring them with my enthusiasm for The Pretty Things. A couple of them may have seen the light. Most of them just thought I was their weird art friend!
Thank YOU, Michael! It was fun to work with your friends' "weird art friend"!
Whether liking The Pretty Things or not, then or now (or in the future) pales when compared to the fascination that comes (and it did!) with learning and listening to them "with new ears" with your passion and enthusiasm guiding our tour through their art and output!
May I return the favor? Got a band or artist you've A) never heard before B) never understood peoples' love for C) never quite "got" how they're as revered as they are, etc (kinda like the PTs, and their earned high place in rock history and my "ear history" with them)? DM me a couple or a few possibilities and we'll see if we can't reverse the roles, here, for a future collab! At the very least, another band for whom you have great love, that has managed to fall thru my listening cracks!
Great collaboration, you two. I love how honest and eloquent you both were (are). This also shows one doesn’t have to agree 100% on everything in order to appreciate what the other is saying. Clearly the band “caught” you two at different times (not just age/background-wise, but just the intricacies of life), so it was interesting to see how the same tunes can provoke such different reactions depending on the specific memories from a certain era and/or the diverging paths your lives may have taken. Great job!
Thank you, Andres! I appreciate the thoughtful comment and taking the time to read.
I absolutely love those pub conversations where songs and bands become the topic of discussion, and everyone shares their personal connection to the music and how it impacted them. Even though not everyone may have the same opinions, it's through engaging in meaningful and enjoyable conversations like these that we can always find mutual appreciation and respect.
Thanks, Andy! You're so right about all your points! Music hits people in different ways (and at separate times in respective lives)! Michael's discovering and thoroughly digging PTs music when he did (in the '80s, a couple decades after the band made the music) is at least as surprising and fascinating as my all but ignoring them in the '60s, when I was (at least) alive to have taken advantage of their recordings!
I agree; it was a great write-up on both of your parts and, in some ways, it's more interesting to read with Brad resisting (though I felt slightly bad for Michael)
Ha! No need to feel bad for me, Nick! I have spent the majority of my life sharing my enthusiasm for art & music that I love and I am used to a lot of it not registering with most people! However, that is also why my family suggested that I start writing again and post on Substack. You never know, somebody might discover something new along the way that they overlooked or didn't know existed. Maybe it's The Pretty Things or some obscure Canadian acid folk record, maybe not. That's the beauty of Art and Music. There is always something new to discover and it's also why I continue to collect records.
Well, Michael certainly knew what he was "getting into," as I was clear with him about my history with the band, and I'm pretty sure he was happy to be the band's "ambassador" to a "non-believer"!! He did his job well, as I have a much better understanding of their place in rock-history, even if I don't download a handful of their albums today! Bottom line, it was fun, too!
Thank you, Brad! By enthusiastically embracing the collaboration, listening to the five songs, and then doing some research for the post - you too did your job well! I salute you, good sir!
Beautifully done. As May himself said: "We were the only band to get Rolling Stone's "Album of the Year" and NOT sell a million records." To my ears they're the greatest unsung band of the '60s, maybe ever, and were so consistently ahead of their time. For what it's worth, I first heard them through a cover: Plasticland's scorching version of "Alexander." Clearly, they were Electric Banana fans too....
Thank you, Seth! And, I couldn't agree more regarding your comment of "greatest unsung band of the '60s, if not ever!"
I love Plasticland's version of "Alexander!" I remember hearing it in the '80s and immediately buying a couple of their albums via Midnight Records. Twink ended up doing a live collaboration with Plasticland. It's an interesting relic, but not necessarily an album to go out of your way to find.
I'd love to read it! I have their S/T, Salon, and Wonder Wonderful Wonderland LPs. I also have a cd collection called Mink Dress and other Cats. And, I have Glenn Rehse's side project, 'The Fabulon Triptometer.' I have only met one other person who owns that one, tho. We may have been the only two who bought it! 😆
At one point, I did have 'Confetti' and the live Twink collab, but I purged them.
Thanks, Seth! Glad you liked! For the '60s, you certainly have a case for the PTs as the greatest unsung band! But, a spirited debate would be fun to hear about including other decades, if not all time!
Damn hitting Brad with "Defecting Grey" practicallyright out of the gate? Such an incredible track, but I remember being a Pretties fan for maybe 2-3 years before ever hearing it – and had heard ABOUT it many times before actually finding the song on a Rubble comp – and I kind of feel like I needed that extensive grounding in the band's music and history (thanks from me as well, Mike Stax!) in order to really wrap my own grey matter around what they were doing on that song and why they were doing it.
In related news, I recently found a pretty decent condition US 45 of "Come See Me" for just two bucks, which totally made my day/week/month.
In any case, reading this was a very fun way to begin the day - thanks for cooking it up, gents! Brad, I hope you'll go back to the first Pretty Things LP, where they basically sound like a dirtier and moodier early Stones, and start again from there. They were a band that went through a LOT of changes in just a few years; and even though I love all of Michael's picks here, trying to grok the Pretties from just five songs is kinda like trying to get a bead on Fellini's filmography from a few selected La Dolce Vita and Amarcord scenes.
No list of The Pretty Things can omit 'Defecting Grey!' Is it just me or do you also hear the similarities with Radiohead's 'Paranoid Android?' I remember when I first heard the Radiohead song (I was watching Jools Holland when they premiered it for the UK in 1997) and I immediately thought it sounded like 'Defecting Grey.' I am sure Jonny Greenwood is a fan!
Super cool find on the 45! Is 'LSD' the B-side and is it on Fontana or Philips?
And, I agree about the difficulty of limiting it to 5 songs. Brad initially suggested 3 or 5 tunes! I definitely couldn't do it in three. Regarding their '70s output - I do like 'Freeway Madness,' but even as a major fan of the band, I have less interest in their albums after it. But, Phil was also the only remaining original member so their sound had changed dramatically.
Your mention, Michael, of "Freeway Madness" reminds me that, in '72, I had that album (I was 17, and a high school junior)! Their only Warner Bros release, I, of course, got the promo from radio Dad, but as you hint, even if I had listened to it (maybe once!), it was just a bunch of new guys and Phil....whose name I remember from that album (and the attendant promo info sent, like a one-sheet and/or Barry Hansen/Dr. Demento's info on the album he may have put in the WB in-house promo "Circular" booklet)!
Their two following albums ("Silk Torpedo" and "Savage Eye"....both on Zep's Swan Song/Atlantic/WEA label) I remember from the radio stations I worked at (and maybe played a track or two!), and certainly know them from stocking 'em at the record stores I worked at, late '70s!
Zeppelin loved The Pretties and they tried to help break them in the US (in the mid-70s), thus signing them to Swan Song and they also brought them to the US to open for them. But, if I am honest, the Pretties star was no longer shining as bright as it was between 1964 and 1971. The US audience was being treated to a band whose peak years were behind them and most in the crowd had no idea of the brilliance of those earlier Pretty Things albums.
I remember all that about Zep and PT, now (at that time) adding the record industry trades (Billboard, mostly, and Cashbox) to my poring thru the rock press of the day.....that was a big deal.....Zep starting a label, then, as you can imagine, whoever they might end up signing! Your last couple of sentences....YES! But, good on Zep for supporting them, giving them work, a label, and attempting to shine a light on them (and, by extension), their catalog.
Weirdly, "Come See Me" is actually the B-side of the single I found - the A-side is "Judgement Day". (And it's on Fontana.)
Totally agree that "Defecting Grey" should make any Pretties Top 5; it's just a LOT for a first-time listener to absorb, especially going in cold on the band. As per the Radiohead similarities... maybe? I confess that Radiohead are to my ears what IPAs are to my tastebuds; I know plenty of people whose tastes I respect that dig them, but I appear to be chemically impervious to their charms. I've actually worked in offices where someone was playing one Radiohead album or another, and the whole thing would play through without me even realizing that a record was on until the music stopped.
I also totally agree that the Pretties took a turn for the far-less-interesting after the post-Parachute singles. To me, it's like they had most of their personality surgically removed at that point — but then I know people who genuinely swear by Silk Torpedo, so...
Got it.....thanks, Dan! Yeah, my first knee-jerk (while researching, anyway) is that it seemed that everybody and their grandmother was in the band, at one point or other, and their lineup seemed to change as rapidly as diapers on a newborn....and, you know how I like my "grounded" context cues!
I'm certainly glad Michael helped me find a suitable band photo to land on at the top.....there's no way, otherwise, to really pinpoint a PT "era" or timestamp, short of being able to measure a moment far beyond a mere calendar year or month (like the precise time of given day)!!
Now I wanna go back and re-listen to "Defecting Grey"! I gotta find out why your jaw dropped at Michael doing that to me right out the gate!
I sense that Mike Stax, for both you guys, was (a decade earlier) like a Greg Shaw-type....Greg was plugged into the (mostly) DIY ethos in the '70s punk and power pop lanes of bands just starting out. He'd give them support, and even record them on his BOMP! label, with many getting signed by majors with his releases serving as those labels' "demos", if you will.
Plus, like you two with Mike, I'd be in touch (from my Houston outpost before moving to L.A. in '80) with Greg in the mid- and late-'70s, sending him local and regional punk singles, and having him put me in touch with artists, etc!
So, Dan, in a similar spirit, if you'd like to collab on a "First Listen" article, I'm game.....see what I proposed to Michael above (or, elsewhere here)....either one of us could be the "first listen" person, with the other choosing songs and guiding us along! Your choice!😁👍
Brad, other than being a brilliant tune, 'Defecting Grey' is also so wildly out there and ahead of its time. Remember, this was 1967. Most of the Haight-Ashbury bands were rooted in standard blues and would extend their tracks into long jams. Did that make them psychedelic? I guess. The 13th Floor Elevators were definitely out there with their trippy sound, but their music most likely wasn't being heard by many of their UK peers simply because one had to have the album to hear it and the albums were very underground. I doubt the Pretty Things had heard the Elevators (and perhaps vice versa). Going back to today's ease to find anything is paramount. Today, a band like Radiohead can easily access and pull inspiration from the likes of Can, Faust, Kraftwerk, The Pretty Things, European electronica, and Jazz and seamlessly pull it all together into one song.
At the time 'Defecting Grey' was recorded Rock and roll was also technically only about 12 years old and the sounds, arrangement, time signature, etc. in 'Defecting Grey' were incredibly experimental for its time. It's like a mini-rock opera in less than 5 minutes (however the original acetate is longer and more raw!). In one song The Pretties saw the future of rock and roll with rock operas, conceptual rock, heavier psych, prog rock, metal, and even math rock! Put into context, I think one can appreciate it more, but even without knowing all of the above, it's still a killer track (but I agree it is not your typical pop tune - thus it faded into obscurity)!
Regarding Mike Stax and Greg Shaw - there is definitely some overlap there. I believe they knew each other well. They were also both keeping it real and getting underappreciated music heard. And, Mike still is as his 'zine, Ugly Things, is still going strong!
Well, Greg, bless him, passed away in his 50s around the turn of the century. I agree with everything, but I'll push back a tad on rock'n'roll's age......yes, mid-'50s, but if I'm giving credence to PT's songwriting and playing, I think we have to take into account the self-contained band structure started by The Beatles.....that was the template, anyway, from which every band with whom the PTs were competing, was born from. I think, from there, your assertion about experimental and ground-breaking are still (and very) warranted.
And, "Tomorrow Never Knows" is a hugely influential song on psychedelic rock. In many respects, because of their popularity and influence, it became the blueprint for the genre. When bands like The Pretty Things, The 13th Floor Elevators, and even Jimi Hendrix heard that astonishing closing track on 'Revolver' it was confirmation that the biggest band in the world had "kaleidoscope eyes" and they were "turning on and dropping out."
Oh yeah..........I remember reading something about fuzz-tone and other guitar experimentation, and I think it was about the PTs....sometimes I get my researches mixed up!! When I think of songs like "TNK," I think of "staid ole" George Martin, and his straight orchestra/MOR background, and working with "these kids," and we should be so thankful that "this older gentleman" who was SO a part of their sound had the open mind and ears to let them experiment, and not toss it all aside (or out) when all these new sounds started coming out of his charges!
Hmmmm....I have some input about them on my radar. All this is from memory....no research, so dates/era may be off! I actually think I may have seen them at some point (late '70s/Houston or early-'80s L.A.) opening, likely, for someone. I know I wouldn't have bought a ticket just to see them as a headliner. My fuzzy memory about it tends to lead me to think I wasn't impressed.
Might they have opened for Jellyfish (whom I adore)....I saw 'Fish in L.A. area twice, early '90s, including driving down to San Juan Capistrano, '91 or '92....they did a live cover of Player's "Baby Come Back"!.🤯
I think I've heard enough of them to, similar to PTs, opine that further listening wasn't "necessary"! I think they've got brothers in the band, and one may have done some work with another artist. Long, stringy black hair comes to mind by at least one member of the band (when I think of them), and their alleged "power pop" label is what I recall not really "buying" or latching onto!
So, there ya go.....I'm game to do a "You sell me on RK as a viable entity in the power pop arena", and I can verify I'll be able to listen with a virtually virgin ear! Bring it on McDonald-lover! I think that's one of the guys' name...the brothers?🤣
Hahaha, yeah - not sure they ever opened for Jellyfish, though there's definitely some overlap (Steven McDonald played on a track or two on their first album, and Roger Manning contributed to some Redd Kross records). But yeah, they seem to be a prime candidate for this exercise... plus, like the Pretties, they've been through a LOT of changes, so it'll be a real challenge for me to pick five representative tracks for ya. But I'm up for it!
Glad I got the McDonald part right! And, now you're making me recall some 'Fish overlap with RK, even with Manning....who's newer stuff I've heard, and could stand to focus a piece on....I remember enjoying something he put out a couple years ago.
Here's a page that asserts that The Posies and RK both opened for Jellyfish in April '91. That bill actually sounds like what I must've seen. I recall both having seen the Posies (another album I liked, but my power pop friends claim I shoulda "liked more") and RK, and this Tucson stop must've been a west coast tour, and my Capistrano gig was either just before after this U of Arizona one.
I have no deadline, Dan (and, we can take as long as our schedules dictate to do this), and you can start by sending me a song (DM), and I'm guessing you have no place on JTL for such folderol (!), so I'm game to host it, and you can cross-post, if you'd like. Holler if other idea.
Okay, that all makes sense. They toured a LOT in that period - even as the co-author of the McDonalds' upcoming memoirs, I have a hard time keeping all their live dates straight, haha. (But yeah, I never loved the Posies, either.) Will be in touch shortly!
S.F. Sorrow is certainly one of the best albums of the 60s and blew my mind when a friend gave me a CD reissue a couple of decades ago. Of course, like many others I first heard tell of the Pretties when I got Bowie's Pinups around 1982 - he covers two of their songs. But I never really followed up, except for buying a beat up copy of Silk Torpedo, their rather disappointing 1974 album on Swan Song. The cover was in all those album art anthologies, which is a big part of why I bought it. I still have it and pull it out from time to time, but I think Dick Taylor was sorely missed by then!
"Pinups" gave me a bit of a first listen to PT, too, Jeremy. In fact, those two songs were about the only ones on the disc I wasn't already familiar with! Another early indication (by Bowie covering them) that the band had a respected place in the rock pantheon even by then!
Thanks, Jeremy! I agree with 'Silk Torpedo' and 'Savage Eye,' and even 'Freeway Madness,' although I do like a lot of the latter LP. When Dick Taylor left after 'S.F. Sorrow' to produce Hawkwind's first album, the Pretties did follow it up with the rather remarkable, 'Parachute.' Their circle at the time was a merry group of Notting Hill freak bands: The Pink Fairies, Hawkwind, and Edgar Broughton Band and there is a bit of crossover between them all.
Dick Taylor and Phil May were such a dynamic creative duo, much like Jagger and Richards, they were definitely better when creating together.
Brad, total tangent here, but I'd love to hear a bit more about those tape-trading days! I traded VHS tapes in a similar vein in order to see MMA fights back during the late 90s, and I bet there are a lot of similarities. Maybe Michael could chime in a bit there, too. This would be a really fun piece, I think! (for me, anyway)
I'll let Brad reply, but the tales of tape trading were my notes of how I acquired rarities by The Pretty Things via trading with Mike Stax.
I was trading with others too as finding obscure albums back then was difficult. There were some bootleg labels, but compared to today's reissues, most of them were needle drops (eg. they were sourced by an LP and you could literally hear the needle drop!). Finding originals was incredibly hard. However, when you did they were also cheap because this was before there was a demand for original '60s psych rock.
Thanks for sharing, Michael. I love music, but I can really geek out about the logistics of trading tapes and such. I feel like the behind-the-scenes stuff is pretty universal for collectors of media, especially since the media landscape is always evolving (and often driven out of necessity)!
See Michael's answer, Andrew.......I really did no tape trading (my "time" was the '70s, and I was awash in promo LPs, and scouring stores, yes, for small-label punk and power pop, late-'70s into the early '80s after my '80 L.A. move).
And, please consider a similar collab between usted y yo.......yo, as I proposed to both Michael and Dan! Matters not which "side" you take....the expert, with me as the "first listen"-er, or vice versa!
Thank you for the invite and opportunity to collaborate with you, Brad. I know the Pretty Things aren't your cup of tea, but your willingness to listen and dive in to do a post is greatly appreciated. I also thank you for your enthusiasm, positivity, and genuine support.
In the age of the Internet, YouTube, eBay, Discogs, etc. where everything is easily attainable, it is easy to forget or not realize just how hard it was in 1986 to find rare videos, live shows, obscure albums, unreleased tracks/LPs, and even BBC sessions. In 1986, to trade across the country with somebody who had their finger on the pulse of a less familiar '60s British band was privileged gold to me. The videos you link in the post were amongst those rarities I was once sent on a VHS tape. While my friends were into more well-known classic rock, I was boring them with my enthusiasm for The Pretty Things. A couple of them may have seen the light. Most of them just thought I was their weird art friend!
Thank YOU, Michael! It was fun to work with your friends' "weird art friend"!
Whether liking The Pretty Things or not, then or now (or in the future) pales when compared to the fascination that comes (and it did!) with learning and listening to them "with new ears" with your passion and enthusiasm guiding our tour through their art and output!
May I return the favor? Got a band or artist you've A) never heard before B) never understood peoples' love for C) never quite "got" how they're as revered as they are, etc (kinda like the PTs, and their earned high place in rock history and my "ear history" with them)? DM me a couple or a few possibilities and we'll see if we can't reverse the roles, here, for a future collab! At the very least, another band for whom you have great love, that has managed to fall thru my listening cracks!
Stay tuned, readers!
By all means, I love a challenge and can think of some bands that fit your "C" category that I think we could cook something up! 😎
Feel free to DM me an artist (or a list from which to choose one) to start the ball rolling!
Great collaboration, you two. I love how honest and eloquent you both were (are). This also shows one doesn’t have to agree 100% on everything in order to appreciate what the other is saying. Clearly the band “caught” you two at different times (not just age/background-wise, but just the intricacies of life), so it was interesting to see how the same tunes can provoke such different reactions depending on the specific memories from a certain era and/or the diverging paths your lives may have taken. Great job!
Thank you, Andres! I appreciate the thoughtful comment and taking the time to read.
I absolutely love those pub conversations where songs and bands become the topic of discussion, and everyone shares their personal connection to the music and how it impacted them. Even though not everyone may have the same opinions, it's through engaging in meaningful and enjoyable conversations like these that we can always find mutual appreciation and respect.
Thanks, Andy! You're so right about all your points! Music hits people in different ways (and at separate times in respective lives)! Michael's discovering and thoroughly digging PTs music when he did (in the '80s, a couple decades after the band made the music) is at least as surprising and fascinating as my all but ignoring them in the '60s, when I was (at least) alive to have taken advantage of their recordings!
I agree; it was a great write-up on both of your parts and, in some ways, it's more interesting to read with Brad resisting (though I felt slightly bad for Michael)
Ha! No need to feel bad for me, Nick! I have spent the majority of my life sharing my enthusiasm for art & music that I love and I am used to a lot of it not registering with most people! However, that is also why my family suggested that I start writing again and post on Substack. You never know, somebody might discover something new along the way that they overlooked or didn't know existed. Maybe it's The Pretty Things or some obscure Canadian acid folk record, maybe not. That's the beauty of Art and Music. There is always something new to discover and it's also why I continue to collect records.
Thanks for reading & commenting! 😊
Truly. I know The Pretty Things but your energy for them here is the kind of thing that will make me go on a deeper dig. Excitement, energy, zeal...
Well, Michael certainly knew what he was "getting into," as I was clear with him about my history with the band, and I'm pretty sure he was happy to be the band's "ambassador" to a "non-believer"!! He did his job well, as I have a much better understanding of their place in rock-history, even if I don't download a handful of their albums today! Bottom line, it was fun, too!
Thank you, Brad! By enthusiastically embracing the collaboration, listening to the five songs, and then doing some research for the post - you too did your job well! I salute you, good sir!
Beautifully done. As May himself said: "We were the only band to get Rolling Stone's "Album of the Year" and NOT sell a million records." To my ears they're the greatest unsung band of the '60s, maybe ever, and were so consistently ahead of their time. For what it's worth, I first heard them through a cover: Plasticland's scorching version of "Alexander." Clearly, they were Electric Banana fans too....
Thank you, Seth! And, I couldn't agree more regarding your comment of "greatest unsung band of the '60s, if not ever!"
I love Plasticland's version of "Alexander!" I remember hearing it in the '80s and immediately buying a couple of their albums via Midnight Records. Twink ended up doing a live collaboration with Plasticland. It's an interesting relic, but not necessarily an album to go out of your way to find.
Ha! Yeah, second that. I actually wrote a long piece on Plasticland, haven't shared it here. Maybe it's the sort of thing for a guest post?
I'd love to read it! I have their S/T, Salon, and Wonder Wonderful Wonderland LPs. I also have a cd collection called Mink Dress and other Cats. And, I have Glenn Rehse's side project, 'The Fabulon Triptometer.' I have only met one other person who owns that one, tho. We may have been the only two who bought it! 😆
At one point, I did have 'Confetti' and the live Twink collab, but I purged them.
Oh nuts! Yeah, my high school band The Vile Cherubs (1986 - 8) were VERY into Plasticland.... I'll share a draft of the essay offline.
High marks, indeed, for that name, Seth! Vile Cherubs so beats the pants off my early '70s Brimstone!!! Nice!
I didn't come up with it, so I can "pretend" to be objective: It is a GREAT band name!
Thanks, Seth! Glad you liked! For the '60s, you certainly have a case for the PTs as the greatest unsung band! But, a spirited debate would be fun to hear about including other decades, if not all time!
Oh goddess. That could get super-messy, super-quick....
Ha, I'm all ears for this!
Damn hitting Brad with "Defecting Grey" practicallyright out of the gate? Such an incredible track, but I remember being a Pretties fan for maybe 2-3 years before ever hearing it – and had heard ABOUT it many times before actually finding the song on a Rubble comp – and I kind of feel like I needed that extensive grounding in the band's music and history (thanks from me as well, Mike Stax!) in order to really wrap my own grey matter around what they were doing on that song and why they were doing it.
In related news, I recently found a pretty decent condition US 45 of "Come See Me" for just two bucks, which totally made my day/week/month.
In any case, reading this was a very fun way to begin the day - thanks for cooking it up, gents! Brad, I hope you'll go back to the first Pretty Things LP, where they basically sound like a dirtier and moodier early Stones, and start again from there. They were a band that went through a LOT of changes in just a few years; and even though I love all of Michael's picks here, trying to grok the Pretties from just five songs is kinda like trying to get a bead on Fellini's filmography from a few selected La Dolce Vita and Amarcord scenes.
No list of The Pretty Things can omit 'Defecting Grey!' Is it just me or do you also hear the similarities with Radiohead's 'Paranoid Android?' I remember when I first heard the Radiohead song (I was watching Jools Holland when they premiered it for the UK in 1997) and I immediately thought it sounded like 'Defecting Grey.' I am sure Jonny Greenwood is a fan!
Super cool find on the 45! Is 'LSD' the B-side and is it on Fontana or Philips?
And, I agree about the difficulty of limiting it to 5 songs. Brad initially suggested 3 or 5 tunes! I definitely couldn't do it in three. Regarding their '70s output - I do like 'Freeway Madness,' but even as a major fan of the band, I have less interest in their albums after it. But, Phil was also the only remaining original member so their sound had changed dramatically.
Your mention, Michael, of "Freeway Madness" reminds me that, in '72, I had that album (I was 17, and a high school junior)! Their only Warner Bros release, I, of course, got the promo from radio Dad, but as you hint, even if I had listened to it (maybe once!), it was just a bunch of new guys and Phil....whose name I remember from that album (and the attendant promo info sent, like a one-sheet and/or Barry Hansen/Dr. Demento's info on the album he may have put in the WB in-house promo "Circular" booklet)!
Their two following albums ("Silk Torpedo" and "Savage Eye"....both on Zep's Swan Song/Atlantic/WEA label) I remember from the radio stations I worked at (and maybe played a track or two!), and certainly know them from stocking 'em at the record stores I worked at, late '70s!
Zeppelin loved The Pretties and they tried to help break them in the US (in the mid-70s), thus signing them to Swan Song and they also brought them to the US to open for them. But, if I am honest, the Pretties star was no longer shining as bright as it was between 1964 and 1971. The US audience was being treated to a band whose peak years were behind them and most in the crowd had no idea of the brilliance of those earlier Pretty Things albums.
I remember all that about Zep and PT, now (at that time) adding the record industry trades (Billboard, mostly, and Cashbox) to my poring thru the rock press of the day.....that was a big deal.....Zep starting a label, then, as you can imagine, whoever they might end up signing! Your last couple of sentences....YES! But, good on Zep for supporting them, giving them work, a label, and attempting to shine a light on them (and, by extension), their catalog.
Weirdly, "Come See Me" is actually the B-side of the single I found - the A-side is "Judgement Day". (And it's on Fontana.)
Totally agree that "Defecting Grey" should make any Pretties Top 5; it's just a LOT for a first-time listener to absorb, especially going in cold on the band. As per the Radiohead similarities... maybe? I confess that Radiohead are to my ears what IPAs are to my tastebuds; I know plenty of people whose tastes I respect that dig them, but I appear to be chemically impervious to their charms. I've actually worked in offices where someone was playing one Radiohead album or another, and the whole thing would play through without me even realizing that a record was on until the music stopped.
I also totally agree that the Pretties took a turn for the far-less-interesting after the post-Parachute singles. To me, it's like they had most of their personality surgically removed at that point — but then I know people who genuinely swear by Silk Torpedo, so...
Got it.....thanks, Dan! Yeah, my first knee-jerk (while researching, anyway) is that it seemed that everybody and their grandmother was in the band, at one point or other, and their lineup seemed to change as rapidly as diapers on a newborn....and, you know how I like my "grounded" context cues!
I'm certainly glad Michael helped me find a suitable band photo to land on at the top.....there's no way, otherwise, to really pinpoint a PT "era" or timestamp, short of being able to measure a moment far beyond a mere calendar year or month (like the precise time of given day)!!
Now I wanna go back and re-listen to "Defecting Grey"! I gotta find out why your jaw dropped at Michael doing that to me right out the gate!
I sense that Mike Stax, for both you guys, was (a decade earlier) like a Greg Shaw-type....Greg was plugged into the (mostly) DIY ethos in the '70s punk and power pop lanes of bands just starting out. He'd give them support, and even record them on his BOMP! label, with many getting signed by majors with his releases serving as those labels' "demos", if you will.
Plus, like you two with Mike, I'd be in touch (from my Houston outpost before moving to L.A. in '80) with Greg in the mid- and late-'70s, sending him local and regional punk singles, and having him put me in touch with artists, etc!
So, Dan, in a similar spirit, if you'd like to collab on a "First Listen" article, I'm game.....see what I proposed to Michael above (or, elsewhere here)....either one of us could be the "first listen" person, with the other choosing songs and guiding us along! Your choice!😁👍
Brad, other than being a brilliant tune, 'Defecting Grey' is also so wildly out there and ahead of its time. Remember, this was 1967. Most of the Haight-Ashbury bands were rooted in standard blues and would extend their tracks into long jams. Did that make them psychedelic? I guess. The 13th Floor Elevators were definitely out there with their trippy sound, but their music most likely wasn't being heard by many of their UK peers simply because one had to have the album to hear it and the albums were very underground. I doubt the Pretty Things had heard the Elevators (and perhaps vice versa). Going back to today's ease to find anything is paramount. Today, a band like Radiohead can easily access and pull inspiration from the likes of Can, Faust, Kraftwerk, The Pretty Things, European electronica, and Jazz and seamlessly pull it all together into one song.
At the time 'Defecting Grey' was recorded Rock and roll was also technically only about 12 years old and the sounds, arrangement, time signature, etc. in 'Defecting Grey' were incredibly experimental for its time. It's like a mini-rock opera in less than 5 minutes (however the original acetate is longer and more raw!). In one song The Pretties saw the future of rock and roll with rock operas, conceptual rock, heavier psych, prog rock, metal, and even math rock! Put into context, I think one can appreciate it more, but even without knowing all of the above, it's still a killer track (but I agree it is not your typical pop tune - thus it faded into obscurity)!
Regarding Mike Stax and Greg Shaw - there is definitely some overlap there. I believe they knew each other well. They were also both keeping it real and getting underappreciated music heard. And, Mike still is as his 'zine, Ugly Things, is still going strong!
Well, Greg, bless him, passed away in his 50s around the turn of the century. I agree with everything, but I'll push back a tad on rock'n'roll's age......yes, mid-'50s, but if I'm giving credence to PT's songwriting and playing, I think we have to take into account the self-contained band structure started by The Beatles.....that was the template, anyway, from which every band with whom the PTs were competing, was born from. I think, from there, your assertion about experimental and ground-breaking are still (and very) warranted.
And, "Tomorrow Never Knows" is a hugely influential song on psychedelic rock. In many respects, because of their popularity and influence, it became the blueprint for the genre. When bands like The Pretty Things, The 13th Floor Elevators, and even Jimi Hendrix heard that astonishing closing track on 'Revolver' it was confirmation that the biggest band in the world had "kaleidoscope eyes" and they were "turning on and dropping out."
Oh yeah..........I remember reading something about fuzz-tone and other guitar experimentation, and I think it was about the PTs....sometimes I get my researches mixed up!! When I think of songs like "TNK," I think of "staid ole" George Martin, and his straight orchestra/MOR background, and working with "these kids," and we should be so thankful that "this older gentleman" who was SO a part of their sound had the open mind and ears to let them experiment, and not toss it all aside (or out) when all these new sounds started coming out of his charges!
I'm in, Brad. Wanna do Redd Kross?
Hmmmm....I have some input about them on my radar. All this is from memory....no research, so dates/era may be off! I actually think I may have seen them at some point (late '70s/Houston or early-'80s L.A.) opening, likely, for someone. I know I wouldn't have bought a ticket just to see them as a headliner. My fuzzy memory about it tends to lead me to think I wasn't impressed.
Might they have opened for Jellyfish (whom I adore)....I saw 'Fish in L.A. area twice, early '90s, including driving down to San Juan Capistrano, '91 or '92....they did a live cover of Player's "Baby Come Back"!.🤯
I think I've heard enough of them to, similar to PTs, opine that further listening wasn't "necessary"! I think they've got brothers in the band, and one may have done some work with another artist. Long, stringy black hair comes to mind by at least one member of the band (when I think of them), and their alleged "power pop" label is what I recall not really "buying" or latching onto!
So, there ya go.....I'm game to do a "You sell me on RK as a viable entity in the power pop arena", and I can verify I'll be able to listen with a virtually virgin ear! Bring it on McDonald-lover! I think that's one of the guys' name...the brothers?🤣
Hahaha, yeah - not sure they ever opened for Jellyfish, though there's definitely some overlap (Steven McDonald played on a track or two on their first album, and Roger Manning contributed to some Redd Kross records). But yeah, they seem to be a prime candidate for this exercise... plus, like the Pretties, they've been through a LOT of changes, so it'll be a real challenge for me to pick five representative tracks for ya. But I'm up for it!
Glad I got the McDonald part right! And, now you're making me recall some 'Fish overlap with RK, even with Manning....who's newer stuff I've heard, and could stand to focus a piece on....I remember enjoying something he put out a couple years ago.
Here's a page that asserts that The Posies and RK both opened for Jellyfish in April '91. That bill actually sounds like what I must've seen. I recall both having seen the Posies (another album I liked, but my power pop friends claim I shoulda "liked more") and RK, and this Tucson stop must've been a west coast tour, and my Capistrano gig was either just before after this U of Arizona one.
https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/jellyfish/1991/university-of-arizona-tucson-az-13948549.html
I have no deadline, Dan (and, we can take as long as our schedules dictate to do this), and you can start by sending me a song (DM), and I'm guessing you have no place on JTL for such folderol (!), so I'm game to host it, and you can cross-post, if you'd like. Holler if other idea.
Okay, that all makes sense. They toured a LOT in that period - even as the co-author of the McDonalds' upcoming memoirs, I have a hard time keeping all their live dates straight, haha. (But yeah, I never loved the Posies, either.) Will be in touch shortly!
Oh yes!
I just re-watched "Spirit of '76" a few months back. There's something so infectious about the McDonald brothers.
S.F. Sorrow is certainly one of the best albums of the 60s and blew my mind when a friend gave me a CD reissue a couple of decades ago. Of course, like many others I first heard tell of the Pretties when I got Bowie's Pinups around 1982 - he covers two of their songs. But I never really followed up, except for buying a beat up copy of Silk Torpedo, their rather disappointing 1974 album on Swan Song. The cover was in all those album art anthologies, which is a big part of why I bought it. I still have it and pull it out from time to time, but I think Dick Taylor was sorely missed by then!
"Pinups" gave me a bit of a first listen to PT, too, Jeremy. In fact, those two songs were about the only ones on the disc I wasn't already familiar with! Another early indication (by Bowie covering them) that the band had a respected place in the rock pantheon even by then!
Thanks, Jeremy! I agree with 'Silk Torpedo' and 'Savage Eye,' and even 'Freeway Madness,' although I do like a lot of the latter LP. When Dick Taylor left after 'S.F. Sorrow' to produce Hawkwind's first album, the Pretties did follow it up with the rather remarkable, 'Parachute.' Their circle at the time was a merry group of Notting Hill freak bands: The Pink Fairies, Hawkwind, and Edgar Broughton Band and there is a bit of crossover between them all.
Dick Taylor and Phil May were such a dynamic creative duo, much like Jagger and Richards, they were definitely better when creating together.
Brad, total tangent here, but I'd love to hear a bit more about those tape-trading days! I traded VHS tapes in a similar vein in order to see MMA fights back during the late 90s, and I bet there are a lot of similarities. Maybe Michael could chime in a bit there, too. This would be a really fun piece, I think! (for me, anyway)
I'll let Brad reply, but the tales of tape trading were my notes of how I acquired rarities by The Pretty Things via trading with Mike Stax.
I was trading with others too as finding obscure albums back then was difficult. There were some bootleg labels, but compared to today's reissues, most of them were needle drops (eg. they were sourced by an LP and you could literally hear the needle drop!). Finding originals was incredibly hard. However, when you did they were also cheap because this was before there was a demand for original '60s psych rock.
Thanks for sharing, Michael. I love music, but I can really geek out about the logistics of trading tapes and such. I feel like the behind-the-scenes stuff is pretty universal for collectors of media, especially since the media landscape is always evolving (and often driven out of necessity)!
See Michael's answer, Andrew.......I really did no tape trading (my "time" was the '70s, and I was awash in promo LPs, and scouring stores, yes, for small-label punk and power pop, late-'70s into the early '80s after my '80 L.A. move).
Thanks, Brad! I may need to write about this myself.
And, please consider a similar collab between usted y yo.......yo, as I proposed to both Michael and Dan! Matters not which "side" you take....the expert, with me as the "first listen"-er, or vice versa!